Caps. Here is the man I choose to believe.
10-20-2008, 11:58 PM
#1
Caps. Here is the man I choose to believe.
I found this information on a 2006 post from him. MP3.com
Name: Larry Frederick
Job: I am the USA distributor for Elettromedia and responsible for all technical issues concerning Audison, Hertz and Connection products.
Portion of his Bio:
I designed all the Phoenix Gold products from way back when (MS250, 275, 2125, MPS2220, 2500-and the MPH-6300($125,000.00 amplifier).Tuned over 1000 WINNING IASCA and USACi cars. Judged 300 events, Head judged 3 finals, help write 3 of the rule books, trained over 10,000 salesmen and installers in 27 countries and 44 states, have 5 design and engineering awards and 2 design patents.
Oh, and here is his take on caps:
-stiffening caps should ALWAYS be used, but on the WHOLE system NOT the bass amp. Caps are just BIG AC filters (hook up a dual trace scope -all REAL car audio retailers have them (yeah right!!) Look at the DC in (looks like a moving semi flat line) and then notice the AC components on top of the DC. Huge spikes above and below the DC. This is AC ripple. Check in front of the cap, then after the cap. At least 20 dB ripple reduction! This is what caps really do! Filter out AC Ripple! Makes ALL audiophile car audio systems sound better as the DC is filtered. And anything over 2 Farads is a total waste of time. RF proved that years ago. As well as Alma Gates. Her Bronco(way back in the PPI days) had something like 40 capacitors. Did you know that after running the Bronco for weeks with caps, they disconnected them because the vehicle played LOUDER without the caps connected??? Interesting,Huh!!! Again...take all of this will a grain of salt. Test Test test. Prove it to yourself. Caps are a REALLY good thing and should be in EVERY system out there. My opinion.
Now I'm sure as hell not as smart as this guy, but that is why i am using a cap on my lowly TC4004. Can I hear a difference? Probably not. Except for the cost, will it hurt? Probably not.
Cheers!
Name: Larry Frederick
Job: I am the USA distributor for Elettromedia and responsible for all technical issues concerning Audison, Hertz and Connection products.
Portion of his Bio:
I designed all the Phoenix Gold products from way back when (MS250, 275, 2125, MPS2220, 2500-and the MPH-6300($125,000.00 amplifier).Tuned over 1000 WINNING IASCA and USACi cars. Judged 300 events, Head judged 3 finals, help write 3 of the rule books, trained over 10,000 salesmen and installers in 27 countries and 44 states, have 5 design and engineering awards and 2 design patents.
Oh, and here is his take on caps:
-stiffening caps should ALWAYS be used, but on the WHOLE system NOT the bass amp. Caps are just BIG AC filters (hook up a dual trace scope -all REAL car audio retailers have them (yeah right!!) Look at the DC in (looks like a moving semi flat line) and then notice the AC components on top of the DC. Huge spikes above and below the DC. This is AC ripple. Check in front of the cap, then after the cap. At least 20 dB ripple reduction! This is what caps really do! Filter out AC Ripple! Makes ALL audiophile car audio systems sound better as the DC is filtered. And anything over 2 Farads is a total waste of time. RF proved that years ago. As well as Alma Gates. Her Bronco(way back in the PPI days) had something like 40 capacitors. Did you know that after running the Bronco for weeks with caps, they disconnected them because the vehicle played LOUDER without the caps connected??? Interesting,Huh!!! Again...take all of this will a grain of salt. Test Test test. Prove it to yourself. Caps are a REALLY good thing and should be in EVERY system out there. My opinion.
Now I'm sure as hell not as smart as this guy, but that is why i am using a cap on my lowly TC4004. Can I hear a difference? Probably not. Except for the cost, will it hurt? Probably not.
Cheers!
10-21-2008, 04:04 PM
#4
caps are associated with a voltage drop across the capactiro which is why they make systems less loud. There isn't enough energy stored in the cap to compensate for this. I have no idea what this AC ripple is and why it would be present or make any differance on the DC power side of the system though...its probobly just my lack of knowledge but the amps are powered by a DC battery so I don't see why an AC ripple in that would be important oir why one would even occur?
I used to love the old MA Audio demo truck they had in Canada...it had probobly 10 LED display caps on the outside of the truck. You could see each one had less voltage than the previous by like 0.1volt lol
I used to love the old MA Audio demo truck they had in Canada...it had probobly 10 LED display caps on the outside of the truck. You could see each one had less voltage than the previous by like 0.1volt lol
10-21-2008, 04:16 PM
#5
the alternator produces pulsating DC Voltage, battery filters the ripple but sometimes not all. ripple is the residual AC left on the line after its been rectified into DC. sooo basicly whats left that is harmful is again filtered by the cap and in the end the amp doesnt work as much to work properly and again you get less or no noise problems in your system
10-22-2008, 02:32 PM
#8
I like to use a 1F cap in my SQ systems. I've always had excellent absence of noise in my systems. Maybe according to Larry, the cap is a big reason why.
Alternators produce AC voltage, sine wave ripples and all but it's the diode pack in the alternator that prevents the current from going 2 ways (AC) and makes into 1 way power (DC). Ripple though isn't completely removed. I remember in high school electronics class way back in 1993 I took the 1F cap out of my car and took it into class. The teacher said it was the biggest cap he'd ever seen LOL Anyway, put it on the scope and sure enough, it flattened out ripple.
Also, some may not know this but you can make a power supply out of a car battery charger by putting a cap on it. It totally smooths out the voltage delivery which prevents problems that using a battery charger as a power supply could induce. If you ever wanted to hook up a car amp inside your house, there's one of the ways to do it.
Alternators produce AC voltage, sine wave ripples and all but it's the diode pack in the alternator that prevents the current from going 2 ways (AC) and makes into 1 way power (DC). Ripple though isn't completely removed. I remember in high school electronics class way back in 1993 I took the 1F cap out of my car and took it into class. The teacher said it was the biggest cap he'd ever seen LOL Anyway, put it on the scope and sure enough, it flattened out ripple.
Also, some may not know this but you can make a power supply out of a car battery charger by putting a cap on it. It totally smooths out the voltage delivery which prevents problems that using a battery charger as a power supply could induce. If you ever wanted to hook up a car amp inside your house, there's one of the ways to do it.
10-22-2008, 02:35 PM
#9
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 16,855
A capacitor won't fix a poor system design or junk equipment but it can usually add a little extra to a decent system - except for SPL where you need so much capacitance that other solutions are cheaper.
10-23-2008, 03:51 PM
#10
^ I find the amps that have the most are SPL amps by far.
I can find plenty of high end amps that don't have a lot of caps, and not that many that have a lot. I think it really depend's on the design if they are required in great numbers or not and not necessarely a sign of a better design or more "sq" potential.
I can find plenty of high end amps that don't have a lot of caps, and not that many that have a lot. I think it really depend's on the design if they are required in great numbers or not and not necessarely a sign of a better design or more "sq" potential.
