Dinosaur Needs some oppinions.
 

I have been out of the car audio game for over 10 years (sad I know) and have recently got the itch again so I started picking up some equiptment and I am just looking to get upto speed on some things.

First off this is the equiptment I have in my van right now, Pioneer avic d3, Audio Control epic 150, 1 set MB Quartz 6.5 and 5.25 components paper cones with 4 x 1inch tweets, 1 Linear Power 652 amp for highs, 1 Us amps usa 150, 1 DD 2515 15" woofer. ( yes I know the usa150 is not nearly enough for the dd 2515 but I had to give it a try just to see )

This is what I have in my closet, a second usa150, 1 US Amps xt50, 1 Soundstream "the Continuum", pair of Image Dynamics cd1e v2, Wired Mbr70 battery isolator, 1 Crystal Line ballanced line driver 12v, 1 Streetwires 1 farad cap and some other odds and ends.

My goal is to make a loud every day musical system. I am very happy with my front end but I may want to change to a bigger and cleaner amp, and I could use some more mid-bass, Rear end wise I want to get an amp that can push this sub good and clean at 2 ohms but be 1 ohm stable incase I want to add another sub, But I dont want it to be too hard on the battery and alt. 1500w to 2000w or so at 1 ohm or 750w to 1000w at 2ohms

So my questions are,

1 What equiptment should I keep and what to put on the chopping block?

2 What are some sub amps out there new or old that fit the criteria just above that are not too expensive?

3 My box is 4.5 cubes tuned at 40hrtz will this box be ok for sq or musicality if not what would you recomend?

4 What are some front end amps out there new or old with amazing sound quality that you would suggest for my front end?

5 I am using the cross overs from my head unit. Is this ok or should I get a cross over or amps with built in crossovers.

I have done alot of reading and research and I just cant make up my mind so any help or oppinions would be greatly appreciated. All these new amps out there now that claim they put out 2000, 3000, or 4000w but only cost $300 or $400 just doesnt make sence to me. I just want to filter out all the junk amps and narrow it down to good quality amps. Example I would have never guessed american bass made some of the best amps right now.


Thanks again

Kerri

1 What equiptment should I keep and what to put on the chopping block?

Sorry don't feel like looking up all the specs to your stuff.

2 What are some sub amps out there new or old that fit the criteria just above that are not too expensive?

Look on the for sale forums and look for used stuff. I recommend pretty much anything that is class D, there are so many decent brands out there, it would be easier if you had identifed a few yourself.

3 My box is 4.5 cubes tuned at 40hrtz will this box be ok for sq or musicality if not what would you recomend?


4 What are some front end amps out there new or old with amazing sound quality that you would suggest for my front end?

I am not nig on associating SQ with amps, I would say stick with a good brand and try to get the most power possible. If you are big on brand names then check out audison, macintosh, brax, zapco, sinfoni , zed audio, zuki. The list can go on and on.

5 I am using the cross overs from my head unit. Is this ok or should I get a cross over or amps with built in crossovers.

Head unit xovers, as long as they can do what you want are fine, I prefer ot be able to control everything up front as oposed ot running to the trunk to adjust amps.

As for cheep high power amps, beleive it, say thanks to taiwan and china. The power is there, the reliability and support might not though.

Hey Kerri,

I love the oldschool guys getting back into it. Todays clientelle doesn't have the passion and excitement about car audio. Now it seems far more about "status" and peer approval.

The great thing about todays gear is there is tons of it to choose from and alot of good stuff out there that would shame the oldschool stuff. For my boss I just re-did his 1981 BMW 735 with oldschool gear. Kef woofers and tweeters, PPI A660, and MTX Blue thunder subs. As amazingly high end that that stuff was back then, It sounded great, but new stuff just kills it.

The people read about all these amps of gigawatt power ratings. The reality is power has been long proven to be a less important fact. sound deadening, enclosure design and install are the true "Big 3" quality equipment coming in a close 2nd.

I know your probably looking for part names and not philosophy but a somewhat open ended goal really leaves too much open to name parts.

Are you happy with the speakers you're currently running?. your older equipment works, but technology has improved significantly.

To satisfy your needs I reccommend at least 75sq.ft of sound deadening material, re-designing your box and focusing on what it is you really want and getting you the right gear in your budget.

So true



Couldn't agree less. Power is very important IMO.

Install quality and deadening is indeed neglected all to often. Install will make or break it.

I should elaborate more. 150Wrms is not enough for a sub. well it is.. it's jus that al the 150 Wrms amps out there have tiny power supplies and no capacitance. So they have little control of sub. Oiwer in itself is not the problem. Running out of power is. For subs anythign over a good 600Wrms amp is more than you'll need for music.

so restate what I said. "Power, when reaasonably adequate...is less of a factor than......

I most certainly DO NOT want to debate with someone who obviously knows much more than I do, but I have seen multi thousand dollar home systems that could blow out a candle at 10 feet, running at 50 WRMS. Why? Effeciancy maybe? Maybe it was the 120k cost with 435 tubes in it?

Amp design is pretty static btw. It's the same old, same old. There are only a few things to look for. I'm too tired to elaborate, but tommorow when I kill off the cap thread, I will explain.

G'nite!!

John

EDIT: SIKK...love the Avatar..looks like Fallout to me ;)

Again another pseron to perpetuate the need for the extreme. Yes feeding 200+Wrms to a set of fantastic home audio towers with egligable distortion is fantastically clean and to some would not seem loud due to the wonderful lack of distotion. Unfortunately I like 99.9998% of the population do not dive a formula 1 car as my daily driver. People and forums in general are filled with all the theoretical "perfect" technical info and too many forum dwellers treat this as gospel.

It's the main reason most experienced installers and shop owners do not participate much on forums. Yes there are IASCA SQ competitiors on the board. Yes there are fanatic SPL competitors on the board. Not everyone needs to fit into the Uber category.

Does anyone know anything about this amp and will it work for my situation? Spec wise it is very similar to the ab vfl 500.1 and much more afordable, I just not too sure about the quality. Will this be too much wattage for my dd2515 ?

SPL FX1-5500d
FX1 Series 1-Channel Class D Car Amplifier
RMS Power Rating:
4 ohms: 1700 watts x 1 chan.
2 ohms: 2500 watts x 1 chan.
1 ohm: 3200 watts x 1 chan.
Max power output: 5500 watts x 1 chan.
Fully regulated PWM Power Supply
Wired remote bass level control included.
LED power and protection indicators
Tuned Bass EQ (0-18 dB bass boost)
High Speed Digital Circuitry
Single channel operation
Bridging Synchronization
System distress indicator
4-Way Protection circuitry
Mono speaker output connector
Nickel Plated Heavy Duty Power & Speaker Terminals
Phase Switch 0-180
Variable low-pass filter (50-150 Hz)
Subsonic Filter (15-40 Hz)
Frequency response: 15-150 Hz
Dimensions: 17.5" L x 10.3" W x 2.4"H
Authorized Internet Dealer
1-year Manufacturer's warranty

Amplifier Specifications:

Amplifier Class: D
Number of Channels: 1 - Mono
RMS Power (4 ohms): 1700 watts x 1 channel
RMS Power (2 ohms): 2500 watts x 1 channel
RMS Power (1 ohm): 3200 watts x 1 channel
Bridged RMS Power: N/A
Total RMS Power: 3200 watts
Peak Power Output: 5500 watts x 1 channel
Total Peak Power: 5500 watts
Minimum Impedance Unbridged: 1 ohm
Minimum Impedance Bridged: Not Bridgeable ohms
THD at Rated RMS Power: .5%
Speaker Level Inputs: No
Preamp Outputs: Yes - 1 pair
Built-in Crossover: Low-pass (LP)
High-Pass Crossover Frequency: N/A
Low-Pass Crossover Frequency: 50 - 150 Hz
Subsonic Filter: 15 - 40 Hz
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: 100 dB
Channel Separation: N/A
Bass Boost: 0 - 18 dB
Bass/Gain Remote: Yes
Fan Cooled: No
Fuse Rating: 30A x 5
© Sonic Electronix. All rights

Probably because it is not rated properly and actually makes much more.

And a DD2515 in current form is rated for up to 750w rms, while it may take more than this in bursts, to play it at a sustained level is not in it's best interest unless you are in the market for a new sub as well.

When I get into the shop I will start having a look into some Quality (not Kwality like the flea market one you linked to above) amps for you.

Are you going to have any more room upfront in the van to add a set of 6.75" midbass drivers?

You have a Soundstream Condominium do you, nice old amp. Keep it for sure. Make a second system around it.

What is the most amount of wattage you the dd2515 can handle at a sustained level?

Thanks again

750Wms. but that also depends on the enclosure as well

Please elaborate alittle. I made a box for my dd2515, and I am powering it with my usa150 for a total of 450w rms and what is happening is it sounds ok at lower volumes but it sounds like crap when i turn it up, it doesnt respond to alot of frequencies and alot of the bass notes I can feel but cant hear. I just want to know if this is an amp thing? box thing? or anything else? I expected alittle more from this sub.

thanks again

the sub is rated for 750 so that's what it can handle thermally. In a ported box with high tuning, anything below port tuning offers little suspension help for the sub so it can flop around and botom out etc... in a tiny saled box the impedance curve is different and the cone movemet is reduced alot so the subs cololing mechanisms don't work as efficiently...

you feeling but not hearing the notes could be a box location issue

The box is right behind the front seats facing up, and as far as i know this box is tuned to 40hrtz as per the dd specs. What would you suggest for more response and better overall sound? box size ? tuning?

Thanks again

that's the problem.. put the box as close to the back door as you can and fire it toeards the back door. (well at least 10" from the back door/gate)

I cant put the sub in the back because I am a contractor and thats where all my tools go. There are no rear seats at all so what about facing it forward or towards the side doors?

On an other note I think I may have figured out the problem. I am using the crossover from my deck which then goes into my epic150. This is a big no no according to the epic150 manual.

So my plan is to switch from the sub out puts of the deck to the rear outputs (eliminating the deck crossover) than I was thinking to connect my crystal line line driver before the epic150 to boost up the line (my amp gain is almost fully cranked right now) is should give me alittle more too I'm pretty sure. This was the best line driver crytal line made I believe it brought the lines upto 12v or so. Than after the epic 150 I will connect my petras crossover and than to the amp.

What say you? Any objections?


Also I am using 8ga power wire for my speaker wire on the sub but that shouldnt be a problem should it?

Thanks again and I will post results tomorrow

I think you have too many components in your signal line. And having the subs in the middle of the vehicle will always pose it's share of problems unless you build a wall.

Bingo
 

Ladies and Gentleman we have a bingo! So I changed to the rear outputs of the deck (eliminating the deck crossover) added the petras crossover before the amp, faced the box towards the front and straped her down. I went from a crappy sounding 133db to a lot better sounding(I know it can sound better) 144db with regular music off a home made mp3.

It sounds alot better but not perfect, I have alittle engine noise going on and im thinking of adding the crystal line to take care of that and boost up the line alittle. I also have to install my stiffening cap, thinking of adding my mbr70 and a battery or two. And also changing the petras crossover to my audio control 3xs concert series.

Now I know your thinking "mbr70 and batteries? But why? no need". Well its simple I am thinking of getting another 2515 and adding my other usa150 to it hehehe. Old school to the death baby!!!

Needless to say my usa 150s are offically off the market.

Thanks to all for there help and input and I will continue to post any new progress.


Thanks again

Kerri

Just curious what mic did you use to measure the Db. An 11Db pick up seems like a whole lot gain from just the changes you listed.

I used the mic on the epic150 and I know it is not extremely accurate but most would agree it is within a db or so and regardless I used the mic for both before and after and it is a huge difference just by listening to it. I know its might be hard to believe that 1 15" with only 450w is hitting that db but I would be willing to bet it is for sure 140db plus. And besides it realy sounded like azz before so it wasnt much to compare it to. To those who may care it hit 145db today play chicago and im pretty sure I can get a few db more with alot of tuning and a spl track or burp.