Finnished 05 Celica Pics from
05-17-2005, 11:24 PM
#61
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 14
$50/hour is good compared to the guys here in the northern BC regions. I haven't run into anywhere lower than aboot $65/hour here. The thing about it is i live in an Oilfield dominated town so everyone (well most people) here are really well off and willing to pay stupid amounts for everything.
05-18-2005, 03:55 AM
#62
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 870
Max Power: Sounds good if you say it fast!!
How about a day up front thinking about it...how are you going to get it all in, sound as good as possible, look nice, and be ergonomic, and also fit the budget.
another day making sure every seam and edge is perfect...takes a while for drying/curing time or stuff shrinks.
Do you use fleece? or do it right and layer mat?
Do you slap the vinyl on? or take it nice and slow....only takes one wrinkle or crease to flaw the whole job.
Do you say "good enough", or re-do it if there's a mistake?
Easy to say you could do it in half the time, but the pics don't show the hidden stuff.
A quality job like this should cost twice as much per hour, AND take twice as long.
How about a day up front thinking about it...how are you going to get it all in, sound as good as possible, look nice, and be ergonomic, and also fit the budget.
another day making sure every seam and edge is perfect...takes a while for drying/curing time or stuff shrinks.
Do you use fleece? or do it right and layer mat?
Do you slap the vinyl on? or take it nice and slow....only takes one wrinkle or crease to flaw the whole job.
Do you say "good enough", or re-do it if there's a mistake?
Easy to say you could do it in half the time, but the pics don't show the hidden stuff.
A quality job like this should cost twice as much per hour, AND take twice as long.
05-18-2005, 06:48 AM
#63
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
Hmmmmmmmm, not a fan of tweeters going really low in my experience in an A-pillar setup. Although the comment about different cars being ...... well different for sound does hold true. In my experience it's the mid that the most critical to setup right. What sort of processing (EQ/TA/X-over settings) is on those tweeters with the F1 ???
Having done a fair number of custom installs, it's funny how very few understand and appreciate what CAN'T be seen. And I don't care how much experience one has, detail oriented jobs ALWAYS take longer then you think they will.
Having done a fair number of custom installs, it's funny how very few understand and appreciate what CAN'T be seen. And I don't care how much experience one has, detail oriented jobs ALWAYS take longer then you think they will.
05-18-2005, 07:39 AM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
the only time correction is on the tweeters, 1.2 ms per. there was 3 bands of parametiric used per channel and none for the tweeter. dawg, you are very wight the midrange is very critical, and crossing over at 2 k can be disaterous, depending on the speaker, on axis off axis, lots of people who do a pillar tweets go really off axis to the the passenger and driver with the tweeter on each side and i never eally. i am very luck to sell f#1 and have had alot of time in alot of cars to experiment, the changes to crossover slopes and points can be made very quickly, and being able to use different slopes and crossover points, and hear the difference in real time is the best learning tool for me when setting up a car
05-18-2005, 08:56 AM
#67
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13
Originally posted by Max Power:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by defro13:
you my friend had best get a grip on what it takes to do an install that requires every wire to be techflexed and mounted every 6" as well as sound deaden the entire interior including floor and ceiling and inner and outer doors, as well as fab a new battery tray out of aluminum, powder coat it. do a nice distribution block mount. you can duct tape and half *** you jobs, we dont, and i charge 50/hour and have no problem getting it. if you could build that exact install in one week, i would supply you with the car, the shop all the materials and all the gear and 5 8 hours days to do it by yourself. im not kidding , bring it on big shot, put your skills where your mouth is chump, otherwise, you are just another big mouth that hasnt shown one ounce of your install ability but feels qualified to pass judgement on something you have no ability to do yourself, until such time as you either show something or take me up on my offer, you comments are worthless
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by defro13:
you my friend had best get a grip on what it takes to do an install that requires every wire to be techflexed and mounted every 6" as well as sound deaden the entire interior including floor and ceiling and inner and outer doors, as well as fab a new battery tray out of aluminum, powder coat it. do a nice distribution block mount. you can duct tape and half *** you jobs, we dont, and i charge 50/hour and have no problem getting it. if you could build that exact install in one week, i would supply you with the car, the shop all the materials and all the gear and 5 8 hours days to do it by yourself. im not kidding , bring it on big shot, put your skills where your mouth is chump, otherwise, you are just another big mouth that hasnt shown one ounce of your install ability but feels qualified to pass judgement on something you have no ability to do yourself, until such time as you either show something or take me up on my offer, you comments are worthless
So a little heat and you go right to the character assassination. You're my hero Mr. Fro.
You assume I don't know install.
I thought maybe I was being tough on your installer or maybe things just move a little slower out your way so I sat down to some rationalization:
Strip interior, sound deaden, lay wire, reassemble. Make battery tray and send it out for powder coating. Hey lets be generous: 2 days.
Lay in glass bases for the KPs, cut mounting rings for the front speakers, aim tweeters and mids, mount and sorta but not really smooth and then paint the deck trim. 1 day.
Lay glass in the spare tire well, listen to front end while fresh in the morning, adjust if necessary, stretch KPs and Apillars, lay more glass in the tire well, start amp rack. 1 day.
Cover KPs, send Apillars out for covering since we can't figure out how to wrap them, finish construction in the back. 1 day.
Cover the hatch pieces, take 40seconds to hammer a hole in a grill for a processor, mount freshly covered A pillars, tie up loose ends and tune. 1 day.
Total: 6 days. Yep, I sold you short a day. My apologies.
My worthless comments I guess but I bet all the other pros are nodding their head in agreement.
Honestly though, I'm not in your market so I don't care how you sell your jobs but to pass that off as a $5000 install (or more) seems off.
And a comment about what Scott said. Very few people cross dash tweeters below 5-7000hz, as he mentioned. It splits the vocals - especially female vocals. Of course in your part of the country, things are different right? </font>[/QUOTE]I will give him some credit that it will take more than 6 days. I am sure he has more than one installer working on it. Also from my observations Defro is a salesguy but everyone on this board assumes he has done some work on this car. 8 hours a day on the salesfloor in a extremely busy shop tell me he didnt do much.
I will disagree with many of MAX POWERS observations except ONE. I have noticed in a short time that DEFRO has no ability to take critizism and immediately attacks whoever challanges his Knowledge or Skills.
05-18-2005, 09:38 AM
#68
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,357
love internet cowboys, so far I see defro being one of few sharing his installs with us, too bad about the critics, easy to pick apart installs.
next time leave the price out of it
Thanks for the picts dave, neon’s looking great, I had a small run in with suede in my new console and man its way harder to work with then people think.
next time leave the price out of it
Thanks for the picts dave, neon’s looking great, I had a small run in with suede in my new console and man its way harder to work with then people think.
05-18-2005, 10:41 AM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
i am an installer and have been for years, i do run a very busy shop and oversee 3 others and the celica was dome primarily by an installer that does it 8 hours a day your obsevation skills are wrong, i assisted with alot of the wiring, the battery tray and testing, again your astute observations are incorrect, i have also got an icredible amount of hours myself into my neon, again you observations are incorrect, if you can build it in 6 days, my offer stands, i have a tough time taking critisizm from guys that have little or no credentials at all to speak of, if they exist, lets see them. if someone is going to disagree at least make some sort of justified arguement
max power, character assasination, where, i called you on you statements and you relpy with a timeline out of some fairy tale, i dont see any pro's nodding on agreement with you, in fact i see mostly the other, again i call on you to show some of your work, you have yet to, or maybe never have, until then....
max power, character assasination, where, i called you on you statements and you relpy with a timeline out of some fairy tale, i dont see any pro's nodding on agreement with you, in fact i see mostly the other, again i call on you to show some of your work, you have yet to, or maybe never have, until then....
05-18-2005, 11:52 AM
#70
Not a fan of the processor placement, but it's not my car, so my oppinion doesn't mean jack.
I like the workmanship, and the time and care that went into the car. very well thought out, and well executed.
it that only took 6 days, then my now 3 weeks into it install should have been done 2 weeks ago!
I like the workmanship, and the time and care that went into the car. very well thought out, and well executed.
it that only took 6 days, then my now 3 weeks into it install should have been done 2 weeks ago!
