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FUSED Big 3 QnA

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Old Aug 26, 2008 | 09:00 PM
  #1  
avidedtr's Avatar
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FUSED Big 3 QnA

Ok I must be drunk - holy ****

So far my system has 1 of the big three done Batt - to Chassis
After reading for months on the Big 3 topic - I finally read that I need a fuse from the Alternator to the Bat.....ok fine how much of a fuse do I need????
My wire is welding wire 2 guage.

Tomorrow morning I'm jacking the 2007 Honda Fit Sport up to install the (engine to Chassis ground) and (Alternator to Batt+) upgrade.

HELP-ERONY

ASAP

CHEERS Julian -
Old Aug 26, 2008 | 09:28 PM
  #2  
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i haven read anywhere that you have to fuse the alt to battery???? mine isnt lol but this would be good info as well. and if we do need a fuse... this should be added to the list of the BIG 3.

BTW i dont even think that the alt is fused??. i just got it runed direct. and its fine
Old Aug 26, 2008 | 09:47 PM
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hey I have done my big 3 and seen several, and in NO case have I ever seen or used a fuse.
Old Aug 27, 2008 | 12:03 AM
  #4  
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so i found this on another site, just thought it might help some peeps out

As many of you know, upgrading the "Big 3" wires in your engine compartment can lower the overall resistance of your entire electrical system. The effects of the lower resistance are typically:
1) Reduced dimming and smaller voltage drops 2) More stable voltage and better current flow 3) Less strain on your vehicle's charging system
So for those of you looking for a cheap and easy way to upgrade your system and help out your electrical system without adding a high output alternator or an aftermarket battery, this is the modification for you. If you have heavy dimming or are getting large voltage drops during loud bass hits, but you don't have the money to spend on a high output alternator or a battery, upgrading your vehicle's "Big 3" will usually help to reduce and sometimes even eliminate the problems. So without further ado, the "Big 3" wires are:
1) Battery negative to chassis 2) Alternator to battery positive 3) Chassis to engine
Now, I suppose it would help if I explained what each of these wires does, and to do that I would like to paraphrase an explanation by IMTfox from a while ago: Think of your vehicle's charging system as two different circuits, one consisting of your amplifier and your battery, and the other consisting of your alternator and your battery. The current in your electrical system flows from your positive battery terminal to your amp, from your amp's ground to the chassis, and then from the chassis back to the negative battery terminal. But how does it get to the positive terminal in the first place? That's where the alternator comes in. Current in the second circuit flows from your alternator's positive post to the battery's positive terminal, then from the battery's negative terminal to the chassis, and from the chassis back to the block, which happens to be the grounding point for your alternator.

So, from your battery, you have the power wire going to the power terminal on your amplifier and then your amplifier is grounded to the chassis of the vehicle. From here the current needs a way to get back to the negative battery terminal, and that way is through the first of the "Big 3," the battery negative to chassis wire. Upgrading this wire will "upgrade" the circuit between your battery and your amp by giving the current a larger path to flow through to get back to the battery.

Now, think of your alternator as the battery and your battery as the amp. From the positive post on your alternator, you have the second of the "Big 3," the alternator to battery positive wire supplying "power" to your battery. From there the battery, just like your amp, is grounded to the chassis through the wire mentioned in the previous paragraph. Again, the current needs a way to get from the chassis back to the alternator's "negative terminal" and that way is through the last of the "Big 3," the chassis to engine wire. Since your alternator is most likely mounted to your engine block using a metal or conductive mounting bracket, you can simply add your new wire from the chassis to one of the mounting posts for the alternator. Upgrading these two wires will "upgrade" the circuit between your alternator and your battery, again giving the current a larger path to flow through.
---------------------------------------------- Now that you understand exactly what the "Big 3" do, it's time to upgrade them to a larger gauge wire. You can use regular power wire from installing your car audio equipment, ring terminals, and crimping equipment just the same as you would for any other install. Let's start with the first of the "Big 3," the battery negative to chassis wire:
1) Disconnect your battery's negative terminal and get the stock wiring out of the way. You might have to cut it and crimp a new ring terminal onto it. I found it helpful to use aftermarket battery terminals with multiple ports on them also.
2) Scrape away the paint and drill the hole for your connection of the larger wire, or connect it to the stock grounding point. Either way you do it, make sure it is bare chassis metal, not covered by paint, and that the connection is as tight and secure as possible:
3) Secure the new wire to the chassis and reconnect the vehicle's stock chassis ground, but DON'T reconnect the vehicle's negative battery terminal yet! You may find it helpful to cover the negative battery terminal with a cloth or other non-conductive material and just lay the terminal on it until you're ready to reconnect it later.

Moving on to the next of the "Big 3," let's upgrade the alternator to battery positive wire:
4) Locate the vehicle's alternator and look for a terminal post connected to it. The post shouldn't be hard to find. It should have only one wire connected to it, and it should lead to the positive terminal on the battery, possibly through the fuse box.
5) Disconnect the stock alternator to battery positive wire from the positive post and connect it to the post again with the new wire added.
6) Run the wire either through your fuse box if applicable or through a fuse. The fuse should be sized to match the max ampacity of your wire, not the output capability of your alternator. As you can see I just went through the fuse box, so my upgrade is probably not making as much of a difference as it could if it were fused externally, but my alternator is capable of withstanding the draws anyway so I'm not particularly worried about it. If I ever begin to see a problem w/ current draws, I will probably fuse the wire externally with a 300A or so fuse...
7) From the fuse, connect the wire to the positive terminal on your battery, again, leaving the stock wiring connected when you're done. The picture below shows the alternator to battery positive wire run from the alternator through my fuse box to the positive battery terminal.

Last, let's move to the chassis to engine wire: (Again, because your alternator is grounded to the block, all you need to do is find a bolt somewhere on the block and connect it to the chassis. The alternator's mounting bracket is usually a good place to find these bolts).
Again, either drill a new hole or connect this wire to the stock chassis ground. From the chassis ground, run the wire back to one of the mounting posts for the alternator (or to a bolt on the engine block).
9) That's it! You're done. Reconnect the vehicle's negative battery terminal and check out the difference!

---------------------------------------------- Helpful hints: 1) Leave the stock wiring attached after you're done. Don't replace the stock wiring, add onto it. Current will take the path of least resistance anyway, so replacing the stock wire will only make more work for yourself.
2) When fusing your alternator to battery positive wire, fuse it toward the battery end of the wire. As IMTfox points out later in this thread, the battery will explode if it's overloaded, while the alternator will only burn out its regulator which won't cause much damage except to the alternator itself. Exploding batteries are no fun!
3) When crimping large gauge terminals for 1/0awg and sometimes even 4awg, a vice works well. Crimp one side of the terminal at a time, creating an overlapping edge. Put the boot around this and then wrap it in electrical tape if you want. the most secure connections will occur in this way.
4) Lastly, prepare all your materials and tools BEFORE you are ready to upgrade. Know what you are doing before you start so you can be done as quick as possible. The majority of vehicles have computers that will reset after the battery is disconnected for a long time and they can cause older vehicles to do strange things if they reset.
Old Aug 27, 2008 | 03:16 AM
  #5  
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Really what can it hurt? I had a voltage regulator go on the alternator in my truck and it was sending out 18+ volts (gauge maxed at 18 and needle was WAY past that) which can't be good for a 14v battery. Dash lights looked like floodlights LOL. If and when I next do the Big3 I am seriously going to consider fusing the alt+ to batt+ wire. If cost is not an issue why not?
Old Aug 27, 2008 | 09:23 AM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by offhisroca
so i found this on another site, just thought it might help some peeps out

6) Run the wire either through your fuse box if applicable or through a fuse. The fuse should be sized to match the max ampacity of your wire, not the output capability of your alternator. As you can see I just went through the fuse box, so my upgrade is probably not making as much of a difference as it could if it were fused externally, but my alternator is capable of withstanding the draws anyway so I'm not particularly worried about it. If I ever begin to see a problem w/ current draws, I will probably fuse the wire externally with a 300A or so fuse...
ok so what would be the max ampacity of 2 gauge welding wire??
Old Aug 27, 2008 | 02:54 PM
  #7  
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Lightbulb

Originally Posted by 420guy
Really what can it hurt? I had a voltage regulator go on the alternator in my truck and it was sending out 18+ volts (gauge maxed at 18 and needle was WAY past that) which can't be good for a 14v battery. Dash lights looked like floodlights LOL. If and when I next do the Big3 I am seriously going to consider fusing the alt+ to batt+ wire. If cost is not an issue why not?
Unfortunatley a fuse generally protects against over-current, not over-voltage so it would do nothing.

IMO there is no reason to fuse that wire. Further to that, unless you have upgraded the alternator, there is no good reason to even have that wire, but that's not the topic here.

IF you want to add a fuse, where are you going to put it? At the battery? At the alt? Both? Middle? Really, if the argument is ultimate safety, then there should be a fuse at both ends...
Old Aug 27, 2008 | 05:38 PM
  #8  
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most vehicles have something called a fusible link! its a wire designed 1/2 the gauge size that would normally be used from the alt to batt.. this wire is the protection. if you dont use a fuse or fusible link you are at risk of a fire!! when there is an over current through this wire, heat is the byproduct (and lots of it)the link will melt but only inside the special fire proof jacked. if regular wire is used in its place the wire and jacked can and most likely will catch fire.
btw a fuse protects the wire not the device connected.. the fuse should be as close to the power source as possible for the most protection.
now i am no expert on the matter but i did pos this very question to an auto electric specialist who but it to me the same way. i suggest that you look at the wire that goes from your alt to the batt and read the writing on it. it will clearly say if its a fusible link. just because one has not had a problem before does not mean it cant happen!!
im sorry this does not answer the original question (which i dont have, yet), hopefully someone with more knowledge will chime in!

gl
Old Aug 27, 2008 | 05:58 PM
  #9  
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Recommended Power and Ground Cable Sizes
according to this its 250amps for 2awg and 350amps for 1/0awg
hope thats the answer you needed
click the linky above!
gl
Old Aug 27, 2008 | 06:02 PM
  #10  
nghtrdr's Avatar
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thought i this should be added as well!
Electrical System: Fusible Link

more info on fusible links
"The four number differences in gauge size will create the correctly calibrated bottleneck for the Fusible Link to function. Normal amounts of current flow through the Fusible Link do not generate enough heat to warm it up, and normal amount of current flow does not result with significant voltage drop. But in the event of a “full-overload” (“short-to-ground”) problem, excessive current flow through the Fusible Link (bottle-neck effect) will overheat the Fusible Link and burn it out. The protected circuit will be automatically disconnected from power.

Installation and function of a Fusible Link is similar to the “cartridge type,” in-line fuse. But the Fusible Link does not deteriorate or have meltdown problems with constant use in heavy-duty systems, as the cartridge type fuse is famous for. (Chevy began installing Fusible Link wires in the main-power circuits with ’66 models, and of those old cars that are still in use, most of the original Fusible Link wires are still in place. If a Fusible Link burned out then it saved the car!)" this was taken from autoshop101.com.



enjoy

Last edited by nghtrdr; Aug 27, 2008 at 06:07 PM.
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