Hi I am new here! And right off the bat I need your help. Any idea/feedback is appreciated! [img]smile.gif[/img]

OK here's the situation. I just recently got a pair of front components (Focal K2 Power 130KP) and an amp (Audison LRx 2.150) powering those speakers. My deck is Alpine 9833. I just had the Focal and Audison installed a week ago and those are where the problems are.

Right after the installation, I noticed that there was alternator whine. After several days I brought the car back to the audio shop and they fixed it for me. According to the installer, the RCA cable that came with the amp kit (which is Phenix Gold) was too long and he had to loop it, and the looping probably picked up noise more easily. So he replaced that with the same but shorter cable for me. He also turned the gain on the amp down a bit so that the noise isn't so much amplified.

Now the alternator whine is gone. However, I can notice that the music doesn't sound as nice. The highs aren't as lively and the mid and voice aren't as clear. I am pretty sure it's not just in my head. My friend (who's quite knowledgable car audio) said the install guy might be using a cheaper cable which has better sheilding (foil instead of breaded) but worse sound quality. I checked the cable myself and it seems to be the breaded kind.

Now, assuming the installer didn't lie to me, then the cable is actually better ('cause it's shorter). And I am having such a dramatic difference (no noise, but less sound quality) just because of the less gain on the amp. Is it possible? Before the gain adjustment, I was playing at volume 10 to 13 on my deck. Now I am playing at around 15 to 20. Max is 35 by the way. In theory using the mid rather than the lower volume range on the deck is better. I don't understand... the installer did these two things (ie. shorter cable, and lower gain on amp which results to playing at more closer to mid range on deck) which are supposed to lower the noise and supposedly increase sound quality, but why am I getting worse sound, despite the fact that noise is gone?

In the remotely possible case that the installer lied to me and installed a noise suppressor or a ground loop isolator as a cheap band-aid solution, where would I spot them and what do they look like?

Sorry for the long post and I tried to keep the thoughts and ideas as organized as possible. I am just quite frustrated right now 'cause needless to say I spent big bucks on those stuff and I expect GOOD quality sound! And now I am getting crap! sigh... please help me!

In the mean time I will try to turn up the gain on the amp and see if that will make any difference.

Thanks in advance!

Argh all the "breaded" are supposed to be "braided". I can't spell! lol

It sounds like a ground-loop isolator fix to me, but you aren't going to want to accuse them of that without doing some research first. Check behind the head unit.

The proper fix is usually related to improving the ground connections on, and between the head unit and amplifier.

I agree with Dave, check behind the head unit and near the amp, it has to be in one of those two spots. Going to a shorter cable of even inferior quality would not make that much of a pronounced difference. Also I would get it tuned so that max volume occurs closer to 33-34 on the volume dial.

what does a ground-loop isolator look like? Anybody have a pic of that? Does that just connect between the RCA cable and the head unit or the amp?


>Also I would get it tuned so that max volume occurs closer to 33-34 on the volume dial.

Why is that? Regarding the amp gain vs. deck volume, right now the amp gain level is being set to around the mid level, and my normal playing volume on the deck is 15 to 20 out of 35 which is around mid level too. Isn't mid level on both deck and amp a good thing?


I am very noob when it comes to car audio and install so please educate me [img]smile.gif[/img] (if I wasn't so noob I wouldn't spend money to let somebody install for me.... now I learned that if you want anything to be doen right you gotta do it yourself)

Personally I like asmuch control as possible, if you are on a scale of say 0-50, some people say they like it when their stereo's are loud at 15, some at 25 etc. I like it when you have more control over the volume by allowing the use of the numbers from 26-50 [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

Oh and a ground loop isolator is generayy a little black box with RCA input and output oigtails at each end. some are larger and I have seen green translucent ones. And you don't have to do it yourself to get it done right, you just have to find a good honest installer. I would recomend Tim Baillie if you are anywhere near Langley.

First, I'd like to know what year, make and model car the system is in. Also, please list the equipment , including the speakers being used. I assume you are trying to achieve sound quality, not SPL?
Steve

Regarding deck volume and/or amp gain, I guess DWVW you are coming from the perspective of "control". How about sound quality? If my normal listening volume is at the deck's mid volume and the amp's mid gain, is that in theory optimal?

I went to Speaker City and that store has been around for a long time as far as I understand. And when I brought the car back to fix the noise, I SPECIFICALLY told the installer I do not want to have noise suppresor or ground loop isolator, because I do not want to lose sound quality. If I find one in my car I would be REAL mad. This is kinda ironic... I paid so much money for the install job, and now I have to take things apart to check stuff. I might as well do it myself in the first place. Sigh.

Regarding my car and my equipment, I listed my equipment on top but I guess they are hart to spot in the midst of my long-ass essay [img]smile.gif[/img] So here it is again:

Car: 1999 Honda Prelude TypeSH
Headunit: Alpine 9833
Amp: Audison LRx 2.150
Front Speakers: Focal K2 Power 130KP
Rear Speakers: stock


And yes, I am trying to achieve SQ [img]smile.gif[/img]

Then disconnect those shiz rear speakers.

Either give me a call or come back to the shop and I'll personally see to it that your situation will be corrected right away.
If a noise filter was used it will be removed and a proper solution will be applied.
Keep in mind that current demand may also be responsible here, so I would check the battery fluid levels (if lead acid type), and check the charging system to see if a zener diode has popped in the circuit.

yup, those extra 'loops' of rca must cause the infamous 'ground loop'... hahaha...

Your problem is more then likly due to noise getting into signal ground at your source.. the only sure fire way to cure this is to ISOLATE power ground...

sometimes disney can solve or at least reduce the problem, or you'll buy a line driver, or a better source...

we'll see if your 'installer' can figure it out... lol..

[ November 29, 2004, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: Haunz ]

Newb, until I can afford another amp and a sub, I will have to live with those stock 6x9s. The stock Prelude rear 6x9s actually come with a small amp and they actually sound quite OK for stock POS speakers.

Eli47, are you working at Speaker City? I took a look at your homepage and I think I recognize your face. If I am not mistaken you greeted me and helped me find the installer when I brought the car back to fix the noise.

Just my opinion, but I think in most situations rear fill takes away from overall SQ regardless of quality. I never run rears, even in sedans, and I quite like it.

Assuming that your battery supplies adequate power,
(check the amperage), I believe your problem does not lie in the equipment. If you connect all your grounds together, including the ground from your radio, that should cure your problem. Remove any noise filter/isolator that they may have installed, cut the ground from your wire harness (in-dash) and butt connect it toa 14-16 ga. wire and run it to the spot your amp is grounded. Then make sure your battery is properly grounded. Let me know what you find. Steve

Okay - if you are not happy with anything about a purchase at a store. I would suggest that you speak to a "manager" - hence me !! If we dont know you have a problem or are not happy with something, then we cannot fix your problem. What I would suggest you do is call me (604) 736-2077 at the store and arrange to bring your car in for us to look at what you're not happy with and fix it.
First thing - we did not use a ground loop isolator or noise filter in your system - period !! So you can look, but you wont find one !!
Second - the proper way to set the gain on an amplifier, is to turn the gain all the way down to nothing. Then you turn the head unit volume up to the max volume of 35 - in your case !! Hence gaining the full voltage of the pre-amp section of your deck, which is why you pay good money to get a 4 volt Alpine deck. Then you turn the gain up, if necessary !! It may be perfect without any adjustment on the amp.
THE REASON YOU WANT TO TURN YOUR DECK UP THE THE FULL VOLUME POSITION IS AS FOLLOWS : THE 4VOLTS OF PRE-OUT SIGNAL ON YOUR DECK IS NOT REACHED UNTIL THE VOLUME IS FULL.
Thats why your gain on the amplifier should be set as low as possible on the amp. This will lower the noise floor of the sound system and give you the best sound quality - which you are after.
So, I apologise for you having to come back in to resolve this problem, but asking evryone on the internet for the solution and getting several different answers - is not the way to get them resolved.
And just in case any of those so called "experts" out there disagree with me - if you don't have 14-years of experience in this business like I do - then I would suggest that I am probably right. And until i'm proved otherwise - I believe that setting up the system my way will result in you obtaining the best possible sounding system that you can have with the gear that you have.
Again, call me at the store and I will personally make sure that it is set up this way and that you are happy.
Now, I talked to the installer and asked why it was set up the way it was. He had set it up so that the deck was turned up the the maximum volume that the rear "stock" speakers could handle, this is why you are not able to currently turn the deck past 20 or so without things distorting. I will take care of this too when we get the car here !

Sorry for the inconvenience, but we will make sure you are happy. And next time you have a problem, talk to a manager - it is ther job to make sure that you are happy with your purchase.

Grant.

^ bahahahahaha...

You can't beat that. If the store manager wants to take care of the problem, then thats the ONLY way to go. I might add one thing though. All 4v Alpine decks achieve max output at a touch over 3/4 vol. . Everything else the man said is golden. He sounds very knowledgeable to me. I've been an installer/owner for 29 years. So listen to the man and take his advice. Grant, if you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask. Not all of us here are "so-called experts".
Steve

Hey G-Money, sorry if you felt I was stepping on toes there. I had assumed he would have brought up his problem with someone higher than the installer. I guess I shouldn't have done that. I agree with everything you say except you can set the gains more accurately with an O Scope, or even a level setting CD such as A2000 CD104.

The settings on the CDA9833 for the x-overs are defaulted at 0db. -6db would actually be zero for the Alpine HU. So at 0db it is actually boosted and max volume on the HU is extremely difficult to attain without distortion. I suggest -3 to -5 with 6db slopes for best results. I run the CDA9835 and was unable to reach max volume until I made those changes.

Hope this helps and I do agree speaking to a manager should be the first step in resolving any disatisfaction.

G-Money...a suggestion. Have your installer visit Alpines i-Personalize website and download and burn a CD-R for each Alpine HU that has the i-Personalize download feature. It will save them time and give your clients a well thought out group of settings to get them started with. I have found it an awesome asset.

Whoa, OK, I believe there has been some misunderstanding. I've got a lot of thoughts and I hope I can present them in an organized manner.

Grant, from your reply I can sense that you are a little offended. I got a PM from Milton (the salesperson) and he's very upset. I did not get any direct communication from the installer but I believe he probably doesn't feel very happy.

First and foremost of all, I would like to state this point clearly: I started this thread, with no intention whatsoever, to ruin the reputation of Speaker City, or to doubt the honesty and professionalism of the installer.

NOW, I admit that whatever I said above might imply otherwise, but it was NOT my intention at all. I am having a problem and I want it resolved. That's all.

Before I go on, I must apologize to the staff at Speaker City - Grant, Milton, and especially the installer Dalan - for making comments based on false assumptions. Now that I read my posts again, I finally realized the kind of horrible things I was implying about the installer Dalan. For that I am truly sorry, Dalan.

Milton, last Tuesday I called for you and you weren't in, so that's why I ended up talking to Grant, who then found Dalan for me. And this issue (from alternator whine to sound quality) is install related, so I thought I should talk to the installer directly anyway.

Milton, I feel really bad that you are upset because of all these things. I know you are a really cool salesperson - you gave me an awesome deal on the speakers and the amp right off the bat, whereas the competitor wouldn't budge on the price at all. I really don't know what else to say, except for I really didn't mean to upset you.

Regarding why I didn't contact Speaker City again for the sound quality issue... it's really because of my previous (rather unpleasant) experience of dealing with various computer stores, car modification shops, and auto body shops - I find that most of the time after customers have paid up, they want them outta there! I already paid the full amount and the installer Dalan already helped me once after that, so I thought I was pretty much on my own from that point on. Ant that's why I came here for help on further issues...

Anyway, I will deal with Speaker City directly regarding audio issues and this misunderstanding. For the good folks at Speaker City: I will contact you within this week.

From reading this post, I can sense a store that wants to make sure the customer is satisfied.

And I 100% agree, if your not satisfied with a sales/service that was rendered, ask to speak to a manager concerning it, in most cases they will assist you anyway possible, as this manager did publicly.

[img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] to SpeakerCity's Staff/Management

it used to be a case of "buyer beware", that was THEN, now the LAW states that " the onus is on the shopowner to prove that they are doing EVERYTHING within their power to assist the consumer". And that's consumer law today.
Something we ALL need to keep in mind.
It's unfortunate to see that the "big box store" mentality has left consumers with the feeling that customer service is something that our grandparents used to get.

^ I've seen more independent shop owners tell a customer to take a hike than any manager of any chain store. Welcome to this decade. :rolleyes:


This issue seems resolved.