Can one sub have better 'definition' of bass than another?? I assume that maybe one sub could cover a wider range of notes, obviously, but is that what is meant by 'definition?

Can a given sub sound 'warmer' than another sub? Will two subs with similar build specs and the same power source and box differ THAT much in sound quality? Why?

For instance, would an 'SQ' sub like an Image Dynamics produce better-defined bass notes than a 'SPL' sub like a FOsgate Power HX2???

If someone could explain this to me a little more that would reek of awesomeness.

the best sub will sound like crap if you have bad sound going thru it. and vice versa. if you grabbed the same amp and used two subs. it would depend on the box being used. All in all. they will sound a bit dfferent. but most likely all that an ear will notice in change is it's db. The clarity will come from it's ability to take that same signal and change it into sound, but sure the materials used to contruct it will affect it. and it's ability. If you play a tone thru it. not really. but if you play music thru it, sure you will hear the difference in it's ability to produce sound. which one is better , who knows. it all depends on the music bring played and what level. easiest way to find out is to try it with what you have and change the woofers to see what your ear thinks. after all it is you that is going to be listening to it. if you want to win and sq or spl. then you should get the help of an rta. it is gonna be what decides how it sounds, so using one would only be common sense. size does matter too but i'm sure someone will post something about that , or contrary to me too

[ February 11, 2004, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: Team Shadow ]

So which sub functions best in the given enclosure, would determine how it sounds, in a head-to-head type comparison, essentially..

and that would also determine how the given subs 'define' the bass they produce...correct?

I maybe just got confused with the term 'define', because this sounds relatively common-sensical

I prefer paper coned, high efficiency, low xmax drivers installed IB. I feel most poly and metal cones tend to sound not as accurate/natuarl as paper ... but again, its all in the install. I have heard many poly/metal cone drivers sound fantastic

since working in the service department of a distributor, itend to look at the speakers defects or shall i say. weakest point and judge them that way. you how strong the tinsels leads are, what materials they use. how much excursion they have, etc. all speakers can preform nicely. and thunp out bass. the quality that a company puts into them pulls alot of weight with me.

come on guys get real......


The speaker that looks cooler, has a better looking logo, has better marketing, is chrome plated, has a VERY big magnet or Magnet cover to make it look big, and costs the least amount as possible will always sound the best.


At least thats the most common way people buy them......


Team Shadow said

"if you want to win and sq or spl. then you should get the help of an rta. it is gonna be what decides how it sounds"


Not so for sq. An RTA will only give you a snap shot of a sample of a spetrum, it have absolutly nothing to do with quality of sound. A distorted/clipped tone will look just the same on a RTA as a perfect one. The RTA just tells you that thier is acoustical energy at the microphone at a specific frequency, at a specific time.


Sound is a very personal taste. I have my opinion and everyone lese has thiers. but drivers do make a difference:

Here the catch 22 ( a VERY short vrs)

1: How ligth the cone is
2: How loose the spider is
3: How loose the surround is
4: How much Xmax the driver has
5: How much control the magnet/VC has over movement

The above let the driver move very fast and stop very fast, this will give you acurate reproduction of the signal being put into it.


However you also need to make sure

1:How strong the cone is
2:How strong the spider is
3:How strong the surround is

You need to be strong inorder to keep the driver from physically distorting it's shape, thus using energy to change its shape vrs making acountical output. Also to keep the driver in it's "piston" range. To do this you need to make it stronger, which means it gets heavier, and stiffer. This now requires more power to move the driver. Which leads to a less efficent driver, now it has so much mass it can't start and stop as fast making atack and decay suffer, and so on and so on......


As you can see designers need to evaluate what type of driver they are building and balance all the factors to make a "best compromise" You will never see a TRUE Sq desinged driver that handles 10,000 watts its to heavey to slow, and you will never see a true SPL driver have a 100 watt because its to weak to handle the accoustical pressure.


Then once you get the driver built it's a whole other game because you need a box for it..........................................


As far as definition.......

It is the ability to reproduce the exact signal that is feed to it with no variation. Thier is no driver in the world that will PERFECTLY reproduce a signal due to the factors above. However thier are some that come very close and as they should be, are very expensive.

[ February 12, 2004, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Impala Builder ]

Thanks Jamie,
thanks everyone,

Essentially thats what I had figured in my mind, I just wanted to make sure I wasnt off track.

I dunno but I like my woofers to define bass as:

boooOOOOOoooommmm
thub thub thub thub
boooOOOOOoooommmm
thub thub thub thub
boooOOOOOoooommmm
[img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]


:D

Jamie is 100% correct.. The ability of a woofer (or any other speaker) to perform accurately is the answer to the question itself. Can the speaker reproduce the signal being sent to it without slowing it down or loosing anything.. Like asking the 'dumb-bum' in your office to do something for you...

Anyways, I get to hear lots of woofers, back to back, and the sound of them varies greatly. The average woofers sound fine with most electronic long drawn-out music. What sets the good woofers apart is their ability to resolve the little details and dynamic information in the music.

I recently reviewed a driver that totally blew me away. Even in the most complex of musical passages, on an amplifier I would consider average at best, it resolved information that I hadn't heard in a long time.

The definition of a good woofer is the opposite of Dukks description...

Snap snap snap snap snap... There should be no overhang, delay and so forth...

and the sub was...*drumroll*