OKay, I may be preaching to the choir here, but the thread about Tim leaving because they couldn't afford to pay him anymore got me thinking. The problem with 12V is that shop owners/big box stores devalue installers. Free install on a deck is one way, that just tells the customer that our service isn't worth anything. I know everyone in the industry knows that the price is really taken out of the head unit, but the average customer doesn't see that. Also when was the last time install prices went up? When I started only about 8 years ago, a deck cost $50 to install, Amps about $90, Alarms and starters $150. What are the prices today, usually a few dollars less. Now ask yourself what automotive mechanic shop rates were 8 years ago, what are they now? Almost all installers that have been doing this for 3-4 years or more are simply not getting paid what they are worth, and the race to zero in equipment is not helping. What are your thoughts?

In 1992-94 I worked for AVU, we charged 150 for a basic alarm, $50 per option and nothing was thrown in for $150, not even starter kill......................I was busy every day doing alarms.............we had no problem getting the money for it............................

Even at boomers we charged $350 installed for a basic Viper, we included starter kill, doorlocks if it had it, hood pin and hooked up the factory trunk pin if it had it, and light flash..........

I agree for the most part... Install labour doesn't seem to follow typical inflation rates of other industries. Now I've only been installing for just over three years, but I remember when my grandpa got his first remote starter, and I think he paid clear of $500 for a basic unit. The prices of the modules have plummeted, but also I think it's safe to say that it's much easier to put a remote starter or alarm in a car now than it was 5+ years ago, with the exception of course of newer cars with immobilizers. Now obviously I can't speak from experience, but one of my co-workers has been in the industry for over 14 years, and he's told me horror stories of some of the crap he's had to install in the past. The products we're putting in nowadays are much more user-friendly than they used to be, with on-board relays and whatnot (except Viper... BOO). I may be completely missing the point here... If we're talking door rates, then yah, our shop labour rates are pocket change compared to some other figures I've heard.
I wish things were like that today... Nowadays they push the $149 installed remote starter rate like it's gospel. People come in all excited, and when I tell them that all the pretty buttons on the remote wont work for that price, or that their ignition keys have transponders, they get all bitter and blame us for being the "bad guys." I have maybe 1 out of 5 cars actually get that price... And it's still falsified because they don't include the $3 materials charge! And if you think people wont bitch about $3, you need to give your head a shake... With custom work it's a little different for me. Normally I don't mind getting paid a little less because I'm learning in the process with some things (eg fibreglass work), so it's all good. That, and I love doing it. The store doesn't seem to care if I blow their budget on shop supplies because the fancy boxes attract so much publicity. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Anyways, with regards to pay, I really have nothing for comparison. I've been with FS since I started in the industry, and I've been getting decent raises since I've started. I recently acquired my AEAT certificate, so now the government actually believes that I can install remote starters and alarms. I have yet to see what kind of change that will make in my pay, but I'm hoping it's significant... We'll see. Sometimes it's amazing what a piece of paper can get you... sometimes.

Ex-Maxx, do you know what the pay ranges for your position are? I was surprised to find out I made less than the median wage stated in our HR binder. Especially considereing I have beeen with FS for 4 years 6 months and my bay has been pretty profitable. I would be scared to ask Tim what he made as an hourly wage with FS.

I have never seen such a binder, and I have no idea what the pay ranges are... I myself make $10.75/hr right now, plus the 10% commissions, and that's after just over 3 years of faithful service. That's changing soon because of my AEAT certification and moving up to tech 3, but they haven't told me any numbers as of yet. I guess I'll find out if and when I get that magic paycheck. I *think* our senior tech is making well over $14/hr with his 10%, plus the extra 4% for that position. I'm not sure if and how things are changing with respect to installers... The install manager position is obviously eliminated, but outside of that I don't think I2 is changing much with respect to our guys. Then again, I don't really pay much attention to that kind of stuff, which I probably should... :/

[ December 07, 2004, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: Ex-Maxx ]

Custom work should be custom prices, but for hooking up a amp or head unit what’s really changed in the last say 10 years? You have premade head unit wiring kits, you plug in the rca's and this is the toughie that most installers can not do right.. Find a proper ground. Now I'm not dissing anyone in this field but for all the thought it takes 90% of the time you maze well be doing factory work ;) . However if you wish to make more then it comes back to cravity, fiberglass, custom doors ect all should be at a premium, I guess it depends on your clientele.
Installers need one of 2 things a union or manufactures/dealers that support them. How much do you want to make? There has to be a cap on it somewhere your not saving lives or going to school for 7 years and there’s no risk involved like starting your own shop... Now there’s one way to make more money.
Installers have a skill unfortunaly you have helped others learn it by teaching everyone online how to's and showing step by steps.
Even a trade these days pay as little as 10 dollars an hour and they have 4 years of training before they are qualified at there job.
Before you guys fly off the handle, I fully support your need for more pay I just would like to see why you expect more pay, I'm not an installer and I don't know what qualifies you for this increase.

For someone who's not an installer you seem to know an awful lot about the amount of thought (or lack thereof) that supposedly goes into the job. I'm not gonna lie and say there aren't any ten-minute deck installs out there, but I think it's a little more involved than factory work. Now personally I'm not complaining about my pay; sure it'd be nice to have more, but I make enough to put food on the table and whatnot, and occasionally buy myself some toys. The sad thing is sometimes people don't appreciate the amount of work that has to go into some jobs... They say "oh yah, it'll only take five minutes. I've already got the factory HU halfway pulled out and you just gotta plug the new one in." 99.9% of the time I've seen the average joe customer try to grow a brain and attempt an install his/herself, they end up coming back to the shop and paying us a premium first to hack through the rat's nest they've created, and then install the radio. Definitely not factory work...

I know what you are saying John, every job is pretty much the same as it used to be, some even get easier. For example name me a mechanic at a dealership that can rebuild a fuel pump. None, they plug a computer in, it tells them what's wrong, and they swap parts. Yet their wages keep up with inflation. The only way to really make a difference in pay in installing is to get faster and be on commission. Which is great for some. I wish I were on commission, but then I wouldn't spend much time training new guys or any of the paperwork part. I mean I can trouble shoot a system in five minutes, usually something simple like subs out of phase, bad battery connection etc. When the customer finds out his mistake took me two minutes to fix he doesn't want to pay. They forget they are paying not just for time but knowledge. I am nipping that one in the bud by telling everyone every diagnoses will take about an hour and I will call them with a price when I know what is wrong. But when I tell them it's going to be $25-$50 to fix, they just go somewhere else, which to me right now is better than spending 15 minutes not getting paid. I guess I am just venting. How much would it cost to go to a cabinet maker and get him to make a typical square subbox, then take it to an upholstery shop and have them cover it? A hell of a lot more than $100.

all installers should be on 50% of the labour they do in my opinion, like ive stated before, if they think they are worth all this and that prove it, dont come in with ridiculous salary(should never even be and option with installers) desires and then try to fulfill them, prove your worth it. salespeople dont typically get salaries, they have to prove themselves, develop clientel, so why should installers. we charge for every minute that a car gets worked on, every minute. the best deal that anyone ever gets is 45/hour, that 22.50/ hour. like ive said before unless you duties include things other that installing, bay managers etc, if you want to make 5g's a month, you better do 10g's in labour. if you duties inc things other than installing than i think that its fair to have some sort of base salary + commission. ive tried many systems over the years and this is the only one ive ever had work, ive had the same installers for 4 years, i had to make a changes due to a illness and injury but no one has ever left. i charge for everything that we do, 45 for a deck, 65 for a amp, if you do more that one its 65 each, 100 for basic alarm(doors, shock, ign/starter kill, lites), 45 for locks, 35 for hood, 45 for trunk(if no aftermarket pin is needed), custome labour is 55/hour, unless there is an agreement between me and the installer. im keep it fair and never rip off the installer, they dont rip me off so i dont rip them off, and i never devalue the isntall by giving it away, shame on the stores that do

I am surprised that someone hasnt mention salesmenship? It has gone down drastically in 3 yrs.

I look at the problems we have in our industry and believe that if owner/managers would hire salesmen with pashion for car many problems would start to disappear.

What makes a salesperson push for that door lock charge or window roll-up option.

A)they are not trained on how to, or even what the custoem benifit is.

A big misconception is the customer wont want something or its Too MUCH!!.. Or he will just go down the street to the other shop.

If you seperate yourself as a shop offering new concepts or differant concepts than the average place the customer will see the value. We just need to show them why they need it.


On labour there is nothing to distinguish yourself other than custome service and Salesmenship.! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Any thoughts?