hey guys, i searched the posts.. found a few posts about this particular battery. they are in the flyer for Canadian Tire this week one is $149 and the other is $159. so.. would these batteries be good say for a starting battery as well as to run everything? from what i gather the red top Optima is only basically a starting battery but the Yellow Top u can use for the starting battery and for everything else.. so ya i figured if a Motomaster Eliminator Spiral Cell serves the same purpose then i might as well save a few bucks right? The Cav needs a new battery anyway so.. i'm just looking for something that will replace the present battery and maybe gain something with the deep cycle and extra reserve power (if any)

it's a '94 Cavalier, btw. running 800RMS from the amp
Thanks!

The Eliminator's are relabeled Exide Orbital's.

They are a fine substitute for Optima's.

I run an Orbital in the front of my van, and a blue top Orbital in the back for my stereo.

ah righton.. so just 1 Eliminator up front shouldnt be a problem for 800RMS?

Incidentally - I saw Optima RedTops at WalMart yesterday for $149.

cool. but from what i am reading, the red top is a good second battery.. they define the red top as a "starting battery" while they say the yellow top can replace your stock battery, (start/run your car) and run your system efficiently.. would the eliminator be the same? yeah thats what i need, a battery that can do both:)

^ Depends which 'Eliminator' you look at. Frankly CanTire has too many spiral cell batteries between their own brand and also having the Orbitals.

Provide a link of the one you are looking at and it will help.

k, the eliminators i saw are in the flyer this week and i don't see them on canadiantire.ca but there is an Orbital cycle extreme duty battery that has an identical case as the eliminator has, but the orbital is $20 more.. anyway here is the link for the Orbital

http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444324 9209&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=2534374303517496&FOLDE R%3C%3EbrowsePath=2534374303517523&FOLDER %3C%3EbrowsePath=1408474396670207&FOLDER%3C%3Efold er_id=1408474396670207&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408 474396670271&bmUID=1114472293217

thanks!

Hokay, here's a quick rundown for ya:

A starting battery is designed to give you high amps for short periods of time. You start your car, the alternator kicks in and immediately begins replenishing the battery. If you get in the habit of parking your car, engine off, and listening to the stereo for half an hour, sure, your car will probably start again, but you're hurting that battery. Keep doing it and it'll fail, in the long run.

On the other far end, is a deep cycle battery. These are designed to give you low, steady amps, for extended amounts of time. This is acheived by thickening the construction of the individual plates, at the same time reducing the amount of plates per cell, so the thicker ones can fit. This is what decides your capacity, cranking power, and reliability. Thick plates = low cranks, high capacity. Thin plates but more of them per cell = high cranks, lower capacity, but less reliability. Place a plain old DC lead acid battery into a diesel pickup for starting use, and it'll be dead within two months.

Reliability - for example, in the common group 34/78 size batteries, the most reliable are the ones between 600-800 CCA. Sure, you can go buy a 1000 CCA one, and it'll be more powerfull, but it won't last as long, there's over 130 parts inside of one of those. More parts subjected to vibration & extreme temeratures, means more can go wrong with it.

Optima (the inventor of the automotive spiralcell technologies, about 25 years ago) found that if you made the plates super thin, and wound them so they can't vibrate, you get mucho more cranking power, and longer life. Then over the years they tweaked & tweaked, and finally came up with a decent one for dual purpose deep cycle / starting use, and the yellow top was born.

Then their patents ran out and other companies can now make batteries based on the spiralcell technologies too.

So, Optimas. Red = starting power. Good for starting engines, everyday use, competition "burping" if you don't mind them croaking in a couple or three years. My brother has one in his everyday pickup, it's nine years old and going strong. He's killed it a few times, it has survived this abuse.

Yellow = Deep Cycle. Good for all of the above, plus the added bonus of handling multiple discharges again and again. Oldest one I've seen was six years. Not as good a warranty as a red top though.

Blue - Marine use. Usually with special terminals on top, these can be had in both starting and deep cycle varieties.

Exide makes the Orbital line. These are sold as both their own labels, and Cdn. Tire labels, and I've even seen them labeled as Mopar batteries. They are just as good as Optimas, however I'm sure if you did some side by side tests, there would be some differences, but for basic arguements, they're the same.

They can be had in a black top (same as red Optimas), blue top (same as blue Optimas), and black top "Extreme" series (same as yellow Optimas). Warranties and specs are about the same as Optimas, prices can be a little cheaper though.

Watch your part numbers when reading ads, the 35/75 size Optima is a smaller battery and I've seen Cosco brag they have them cheaper than everyone else. That's why, it's a smaller battery. They didn't even have a 34/78 in a red top.

Nice HU crazykev. [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

as for you too sir, excellent choice:)

ok. well i definately don't want a red top, i would rather have the cranking power along with the deep cycle for the longer period of time (dual purpose). i am definately leaning towards the Canadian Tire / Orbital lines. one that is comparable to the red top. i've seen the DEKA Intimidator yellow top on a site from the states, but i dont like all the messing around with shipping, etc. because i work all day. but yea i am heading down Canadian Tire tomorrow evening, gonna find a battery that will fit the bill:)

thank you all for the replies to my post!

also, an alternator and wiring upgrade is in the works for hopefully this time next year.. i would have done it in the reverse order if my battery didnt fry on me lol. but anyway, a deep cycle battery won't strain my alternator any more than a conventional battery would.. would it?

the capacitor helps a bit, was thinking deep cycle battery might help more, and finally with the "big 3" upgrade maybe all my dimming will be taken care of

Do your cabling, "big 3", first. It is of the utmost importance. Then do battery(s). Since you're doing the battery out of necessity now, do the cabling at the same time. It's not a big job, until you add a second battery.

Ya I guess technically the DC battery would be more work for your alternator. But don't worry about it, it'd be the difference of 100,000km (for example) lifespan instead of 120,000.

I'm around 1.8 - 1.9 Kw in my van right now. With proper cabling, and low resistance batteries front & rear, an alternator upgrade hasn't been necessary yet. When my existing alternator, a stock 105 amp, poops out, that's when I'll upgrade it to a 140ish. So do your cabling and battery, and you may find you can live with your alternator until it becomes more necessary.

I've since learned that caps seem to be more of a "band-aid" solution, so when I finally do upgrade my alternator, I'll probably remove my cap completely.

The DEKA boys were by my place recently with those Intimidators, looking to sign me as a dealer. I can get them now, and can probably ship one to you if you're seriously interested in it, but from what I've seen, it's just another Optima type battery, no spralcell, but the specs were similar to Optima & Orbital. I'll look for my literature at the shop tomorrow and let ya know if ya like...

looks like an interesting battery, but if i end up buying one tomorrow at least i'd have something i could put right in. u definately know ur stuff man. i'm ok with different audio components but a bit of a newb with the electricity/voltage thing. i will more than likely ask your advice when i upgrade my wires, if thats cool:)

but ya as far as the battery goes, the spiral cell CT brands should do the trick!

Thanks

That Orbital Extreme in the link is the exact battery I would look at. In fact I am considering buying that very battery myself.

eeexcellent..
*does the mr burns thing*

Thank you all:)

yeah the Canadian Tire guy sold me the Eliminator spiral cell.. 700CCA, 95min reserve. he typed the kind of car i had (94 Cavalier) and the one he sold me is actually listed on the list of batteries that will fit the engine bay.. which is good, i didnt really consider how mch space it would need. but anyway the one i was looking at was 690CCa with 85 reserve mins, and he brought out the other one for like $5 more and it's recommended for the rig... SO ITS ALL GOOD:) thanks to everyone again!

In my old car I had an eliminator battery (non-spiral cell) I really liked this battery, however, how does it compare to a spiral cell at almost double the cost?

I had the Eliminator 1200amp 1000cca and it was great. However when I swapped to the Excide Orbital Extreme I had less dimming and my SPL increased. No more leaking battery either and no corrosion on my RF terminals.

I also looked at the Eliminator Spiral cell but after hearing testimonials from WCES members and others. I opted for the Excide and never regretted it. I have sent many a person to CTire to get one and bring it back and I install it for them.

im running exide orbital extreme batt in the front...no problem whatsoever. it starts fine during winter. deep cycle is just as good as regular ones. actually it starts much better than crappy little motomaster 72 green battery.

They're the same battery, different labels.