Need a bit of help!
 

I'm new here so let me make this quick...
I'm interested in a pair of Hifonics Brutus 12'' subs. They are 600w Rms each.
Should I go down this unknown route of subs or stick with JBL that I have used in the past and liked them alot. I like the brutus series for the wattage...

Also what kind of amp do you guys suggest, mono block to bridge the subs or 2 channel.

Also, should I invest in Dynamat and install in the trunk of my Jeep Liberty or see how much the sound resonates before installing dynamat?

Any suggestions of help are greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

You are buying a sub based on wattage? I would think that the overall goal of the system is more important when choosing items. The Liberty is a fairly solid little vehicle, if you are going to deaden it is primarily in the doors that you will need it. Figure out what it is you want in the system, loud, good sound, or a combination of both. Then proper subs can be chosen for the application, the proper box built for them, the right amp to power them......

Wattage is the devil!!!!

Although good power handling is ideal it's a very misused, misunderstood spec that marketting teams are seriously abusing. A speakers wattage rating is absolutely nothing other than it's ability to dissipate heat. It has absolutely ZERO to do with how a sub will sound, or perform.

Even specs such as Xmax are not always accurate as some subwoofers have higher Xmax ratings than they actually have suspension (the nickel cone Cerwin Vegas come immediately to mind). The best way to decide on a subwoofer is get out there and listen to quite a few setups, visit a few reputable shops isten to what they have..ask he installers what they are running... if you're looking into something that yu don't have available locally listening to trusted merchants like MR2NR and other experienced people is a great start. Feel free to ask more questions we're here to help.

Well wattage is pretty much the only thing that I can clearly understand.... I know it sounds kinda weak but hey its the truth. Now I'm not looking for too much clarity in them as long as the bass does not get distorted with hip hop music. That's what I mostly listen to day in and out. The speakers will be chosen a bit later on after I sniff around for different brands and sound quality on a budget. I'm willing to spend 600$ on 2 subs and a max of 150$ for component speakers. I'm guessing the amp will eat up alot more than 300$.
Now I will build the box myself since the first one that I build for my 2 jbl gto's 12'' stood up to the task perfectly and I followed the specs from jbl for a bandpass box.
I am really locking for suggestions on what brand of subs to go for hip hop and deep bass. I know that the box is very important and that sound insulation is also important.
That's covered.

if I was you I'd limit my subs to about $400 and spend $300on the components. You don't need to spend a ton on subs to get great performance if you look around for good deals.

Wow I really understood the wattage in subwoofer usage....
So what would you guys suggest for good deep bass without going overboard... in means of the space that they will take in my trunk....

1 really good 12 in a good sized ported box will be more than enough to cause pain to your ears. if SQ isn't a huge concern for you, a Pioneer Premiere TS-W3002 D4 would be a really good choice for getting very loud, with a 2 year local warranty at around $300, which leaves you cash for better components, or a better amplifiers.

A pair of respectable subs can easily take care of your craving for bass, especially if you have them in the proper box. I think you would go further with your system with a solid set of front speakers, an amp to power them, a respectable set of subs and the amp to power them. Unless you are a total bassoholic, there is no need to go and spend that kind of money on subs when there are some that will easily do the job for you.

Thank you for the advice guys. Now if I wanted to look into sound quality of the subs, what should I look for in the specs. Now I don't expect any one to explain all of the measurements to me because I can go and search around on the web and same everyone time and web space. But is there like a let's say a couple of measurements that are usually the most important, like frequency or the sensitivity of the subs.
The way that I see sound systems is, you need subs for the low end frequency and speakers for the mids and highs and of course an amp to power the subs. Now what kind of speakers require amps to run them? Are these speakers more like mini subs with tweaters on them or are they actually a speaker that needs to be amplified in order to achieve the specific range at which they are make to work as a speaker. And when it comes to choosing the sub brand depending on the sound I would like to get is there a brand that is known to be reliable and efficient?
What I am looking for is a pair of subs with 1 amp and 2 pairs of speakers that will enhance not only the sound in the car but also make it clearer and pound my head to the point of making my eyes water from the vibration. I was almost at that level with my old setup without any aftermarket speakers. Only the 2 subs in my old neon that is now collecting dust in my back yard. But now I really want to learn about all the aspects of the sound systems in cars, so that my next choice is a really good one that will last a loooonnggg time.

Unfortunately no matter how many times or how hard I've tried I could never hear a spec sheet. Following specs, you can get a guideline on what to look at, but the ulitmate decision is based on experience and your own ears. The sub I reccomended in around 2.4cu.ft tuned around 38hz would sound pretty good. Not good enough to use in an SQ competition, but still pretty good.

To answer your question with speakers. None need an amp. Speakers with lower efficiency will usually not be able to get very loud just off the power from a head unit.

The difference between your head unit and amplifier other than power is sound quality. pretty much all head units now make betwen 18 and 22Watts RMS. the power difference between 18 and 22 is pretty much not noticable to the human ear so loudness would be the same. But a head unit's built in amplifier is a tiny transformer and a small IC chip. The lack of a signifant power supply means that the head unit cannot really control speakers very good and distortion levels will be high and bass will be sloppy. It's just not clean power.

An amplifier offers noticibly cleaner and better sound as well as allowing things to be played quite a bit louder without any significant distortion.

The difference betweena pair of subs and a single subwoofer isn't as significant as you might think. Adding a second sub only adds 3 decibels of sound. Which is pretty much the increase in loudness that is required for the human ear to notice something is louder. So nothign drastic there. Instead of buying a pair of lower end subs, you'd be better spending the money 1 really good subwoofer. It'll be cheaper with better sound, usually as loud, if not more so. and leaves you more coin for a good amp and better speakers.

The magic trick to all this is shopping with your ears. If you go to any big box store in the montreal area they will sell you on wattage and price. The sales guys working at those stores probaby know about as much as you do and just sell based on their limited knowledge. There's a few shops in Montreal that will take the time to explain things to you and really work with you to find what suits you best. The majority will just sell you what makes them a highe profit margin and will in all likelyhood leave you satisfied with your purchase, but afterward if you looked or asked around, you would have found that you could have gotten a better deal , or upgraded equipment for the same price.

people like myself and a few of the Vendors here actually listen to the customer and don't try selling an item, but more give guidance based on our numerous years experience in the field.

Going with what you've said above. I still strongly reccomend the subwoofer choice I allready mentioned. For speakers you have to buy with your ears. If you really don't want to use an amp to power them, find a really efficient speaker set that sounds good to you.

I always push amplifying though, a more than decent 4ch isn't that expensive.

"What I am looking for is a pair of subs with 1 amp and 2 pairs of speakers that will enhance not only the sound in the car but also make it clearer and pound my head to the point of making my eyes water from the vibration."

To me this screams that you are after something serious. It also says that you need to look at a game plan as the system may be more than the budget allows. Are you prepared to do it in steps or is it do it once properly? What cd player do you have for it. Front and rear speakers sizes are 6.75", use component speakers for the front and a coax for the rear. Yes they need to have an amplifier on them. The system needs balance to perform properly and that Jeep is a nice little platform for sound. I have some things I am considering but still need more info to ensure a highly predictable outcome for you.

Thank you Sikk Nation, I really appreciate that advice. So I will go out and look around a couple of shops for speakers. I really thought all wrong when it comes to car sound systems.
I will keep your advice in mind.

Thank you again.

MR2NR what would you suggest as for component speakers and coax speakers with an amp, because. I know that 1 sub and an amp will come later on. If I wanted to get just a pair of component speakers that are efficient and then later on get a good sub and amp, what is the first choice of speakers that comes to mind?

What about the power handling of the amp. If I get, let's say a sub that's 1000w rms at 2ohms, what should the amp be rated at. Now I know that closer the better, but does that mean more than 1000w or less than. My thinking would be less than 1000w because I could turn up the gain right?

Do you have msn?

Your always better off with a little bit of overkill when it comes to amps. That wa you generally don't have to worry about sending your equipment a distorted signal. Although power can blow subs/speakers, 9 times out of 10 it's the nut between the seat and the steering wheel cranking things well past distortion that is the culprit.

Ain't that the truth.....:ohwell:

What about Audioque subs, the HD series. I read somewhere that they are pretty much
Digital Designs 9500 series. Is this true? And what do you guys think about them? I'm still just looking around at different brands for now.

Having 3 DD9510G's in my office right now staring at me and looking at the audioque websites pics. They absolutely do not have the overbuilt, overkill look to the on adhesives and other points. Also they are using round surrounds and not eprom so less cone area.. their cooling vents around the VC are wide open, so there wouldn't be enough resistance to get good air velocity around the coil to cool it enough.

Never heard of the company untill now, but quickling looking through their stuff. It looks like Build quality was much lower on their list than "spec sheet figures" and looking at the pricing it seems that is the case.

I could be wrong, but I can see cheap a mile away

Interesting, so DD would be a wise choice in this case?

at the risk of hurting sikks feelings again i think i will stay far away from this thread

defro, if you have something useful to post in here by all means don't be shy. The oly issue I had last time was the very short useless posts you made that added ZERO value to that thread. If you have something of Value to ad I promise I won't cry again.

Hey is there anything out there that does somewhat of the same job as dynamat but does not cost so damn much (nor smells). Or should I just go with the stuff that works and costs a lot........
I really do not feel like hearing all the rattles coming from the back and doors on the Jeep like I used to on my old car. It was just nasty.....
Anyone ever hear of bulbs popping from the sound?

B-Quiet extreme, Raammat60BXT seem to be the 2 most cost effective proven products.

i think youve said enough.....he may now only shop in 3 places in montreal otherwise he is doing himself a disservice....and lemme guess....i bet one of the 3 is yours....lol

Don't confuse price with quality. You are wrong and your vision is lacking. Those "cheap" subs hold the USACI world record in Streetbeat 2, 157.plus on thirty seconds of music. The same basic subs were in the loudest street B car in North America at last years dbdrag finals. Don't believe me do a google search. Talk to the top SPL competitors in Canada, start with Father Yuli.

I am very familiar with all DD products, I have been involved with DD from the day my son started the company. Take a look at the Z motor, the whole coil is open to the outside, it doesn't get any "air velocity" either. I don't need to have three sitting on my desk I have build more DD subs then I care to remember.

As far as build quality is concerned AQ subs have the final assembly on the same production lines as DD subs by the same people using the same glues and quality control procedures. I have been in this business over 25 years and can't tell much about a sub from looking at a picture but I sure as hell know how to build a quality product.

SON YOU JUST GOT TOLD!!!!!!


I support both DD and AQ 100%.
AQ makes great subs and great amps :)

Hey I found a deal on ebay for 2 Hifonics subs. I never heard what they sound like so I'm just wondering if anyone has more info on them. I checked the company a bit and they seem reliable....
What do you guys think.
NEW HIFONICS B12D2 12" 2 OHM BRUTUS SERIES SUBWOOFER - (eBay.ca item 290307397525 end time 02-May-09 14:11:38 EDT)

I was checking out the Alpine SPS-600 speakers. I found the manual for them on the net and I was surprised to read that if a car already has tweeters to disconnect them because apparently the load being parallel can damage the speakers. What's up with that???

I would be very leary of any audio equipment purcased online. Quite a few times you will have problems with the seller(trustworthy?) cheap or fake equipment, returns etc. It's much better to shop at a store where you can hear, touch(if need be) the equipment. If you MUST shop online MR2NR
is a trustworthy guy and if he can't help you he know's someone who can.

Cool Cool, I talked to MR2NR, I was just wondering what you guys think about the brand.
Hifonics that is, and also about the tweeter thing.