New System - Fail
06-12-2013, 02:33 AM
#1
0 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7
New System - Fail
Howdy folks,
I've had my new setup for all of a few hours now and I know something is wrong...
I picked up a new head unit (Pioneer DEHP8400BH), 4 speakers (High End JL Audio and Hertz) and a 4 Channel 400W Alpine Amp (MRXF65). I paid a tidy sum for the wiring kit and RCA cables, so they should be solid. Install was done by a "pro" working for a somewhat specialized commercial outlet store.
I didn't go for a sub; opting instead for some high end speakers that could produce a clear sound spectrum with a bit of amped up power to create a bit of boom. I may yet add a mono channel amped sub at a later date - but I'm not prepared to absorb the expense of dynamiting the car to prevent rattle unless necessary.
The sound range is full and clear at high volumes but the factory default bass is shallow. I sat in the parking lot at the install location for a while playing with various EQ settings to get it to sound right. I'm not trying to create a "wake up the neighbors" bass setting. I can stand outside the car and the sound level is reasonable. I decided to use some Dubstep to test out the system - there's a lot of heavy bass lines in this type of music along with other complex multispectral sound ranges.
After ramping up the bass a bit at above average volume, the speakers suddenly turned off. The Head unit was still on, but I had to turn off the car to get the sound to come back.
I was running them loud, but I think I was being fairly reasonable with the settings. I decided to turn down the 100hz range on the EQ (bass), and run at a lower volume.
While driving home they shut off again. Its all under warranty still, and my buddy was telling me that his pioneer unit was the cause of the same problem for him.
Thoughts ?
I've had my new setup for all of a few hours now and I know something is wrong...
I picked up a new head unit (Pioneer DEHP8400BH), 4 speakers (High End JL Audio and Hertz) and a 4 Channel 400W Alpine Amp (MRXF65). I paid a tidy sum for the wiring kit and RCA cables, so they should be solid. Install was done by a "pro" working for a somewhat specialized commercial outlet store.
I didn't go for a sub; opting instead for some high end speakers that could produce a clear sound spectrum with a bit of amped up power to create a bit of boom. I may yet add a mono channel amped sub at a later date - but I'm not prepared to absorb the expense of dynamiting the car to prevent rattle unless necessary.
The sound range is full and clear at high volumes but the factory default bass is shallow. I sat in the parking lot at the install location for a while playing with various EQ settings to get it to sound right. I'm not trying to create a "wake up the neighbors" bass setting. I can stand outside the car and the sound level is reasonable. I decided to use some Dubstep to test out the system - there's a lot of heavy bass lines in this type of music along with other complex multispectral sound ranges.
After ramping up the bass a bit at above average volume, the speakers suddenly turned off. The Head unit was still on, but I had to turn off the car to get the sound to come back.
I was running them loud, but I think I was being fairly reasonable with the settings. I decided to turn down the 100hz range on the EQ (bass), and run at a lower volume.
While driving home they shut off again. Its all under warranty still, and my buddy was telling me that his pioneer unit was the cause of the same problem for him.
Thoughts ?
06-12-2013, 10:49 AM
#2
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 161
first thought... you need a subwoofer to accomplish what you are trying to do. do not destroy your components trying to squeeze frequencies out that they arent designed to play.
secondly, do not "dynamite" your car...it can be fixed. you might need 'Dynamat' or another brand of sound damping material to absorb the vibrations. considering the kind of music you are playing you will probably eventually rattle the panels loose with the proper subs.
do not over adjust the EQ settings and DO NOT adjust the gains on your amp. leave that all to a professional installer. I kind of doubt the knowledge of your installer as he should have told you most of what I am saying.
its possible that your amp is going into protection mode. what gauge wire is run? price does not dictate quality. if the wire is too thin then your amp is straining, and when you run it loud the amp will overheat. some amps have a protection mode indicator on them, you might want to read the manual and see if thats what is going on.
secondly, do not "dynamite" your car...it can be fixed. you might need 'Dynamat' or another brand of sound damping material to absorb the vibrations. considering the kind of music you are playing you will probably eventually rattle the panels loose with the proper subs.
do not over adjust the EQ settings and DO NOT adjust the gains on your amp. leave that all to a professional installer. I kind of doubt the knowledge of your installer as he should have told you most of what I am saying.
its possible that your amp is going into protection mode. what gauge wire is run? price does not dictate quality. if the wire is too thin then your amp is straining, and when you run it loud the amp will overheat. some amps have a protection mode indicator on them, you might want to read the manual and see if thats what is going on.
06-12-2013, 12:29 PM
#3
0 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7
The wire guage is 4 Awg.
I'm not trying to do anything excessive with them as far as the bass levels. Without some minor adjustments the system had less bass than my stock speakers. Theres a bass booster setting - it can go up to +10 (I had it set at +2)
These are the amps specs:
Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.
Rear Speakers: JL Audio 6" component . The tech specs are on the "features" tab.
Car Audio Products: Car Audio Speakers: 6 Inch Car Speakers: JL Audio C2-600 6-inch 2-Way Component Speaker System | Visions Electronics
Front Speakers: Hertz 6.5" Coaxial
Car Audio Products: Hertz Hi-Energy 165mm 6.5" 2 Way Coaxial Speaker | Visions Electronics
It looks like the impedance of the speakers matches the amps specs. What about the power handling ? It says the JL Audio speakers in the rear can handle 60W but I see on the alpine tech specs that it puts out 110w RMS in a 4 channel setup at 4ohms (which they are).
Could the head unit be causing trouble somehow ? Friend said the exact same thing was happening with his system until he replaced the Pioneer with something else. Maybe there is a reason it was on sale...
I'm not trying to do anything excessive with them as far as the bass levels. Without some minor adjustments the system had less bass than my stock speakers. Theres a bass booster setting - it can go up to +10 (I had it set at +2)
These are the amps specs:
Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.
Rear Speakers: JL Audio 6" component . The tech specs are on the "features" tab.
Car Audio Products: Car Audio Speakers: 6 Inch Car Speakers: JL Audio C2-600 6-inch 2-Way Component Speaker System | Visions Electronics
Front Speakers: Hertz 6.5" Coaxial
Car Audio Products: Hertz Hi-Energy 165mm 6.5" 2 Way Coaxial Speaker | Visions Electronics
It looks like the impedance of the speakers matches the amps specs. What about the power handling ? It says the JL Audio speakers in the rear can handle 60W but I see on the alpine tech specs that it puts out 110w RMS in a 4 channel setup at 4ohms (which they are).
Could the head unit be causing trouble somehow ? Friend said the exact same thing was happening with his system until he replaced the Pioneer with something else. Maybe there is a reason it was on sale...
Last edited by Pawnz0rz; 06-12-2013 at 12:39 PM.
06-12-2013, 01:45 PM
#4
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 161
well assuming the amp is grounded properly (4 gauge grounded to bare metal) then it sounds like your amp and speakers should be ok.
where did you get the head unit? how much was it? did they say if it was b-stock or refurbished? it could be the deck for sure, but it could just as easily be the amp.
where did you get the head unit? how much was it? did they say if it was b-stock or refurbished? it could be the deck for sure, but it could just as easily be the amp.
06-12-2013, 02:43 PM
#5
0 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Head Unit is a Pioneer DEHP8400BH
Bought from: Visions Electronics - Visions Electronics
Its a new unit. Paid $170 for it on sale.
Bought from: Visions Electronics - Visions Electronics
Its a new unit. Paid $170 for it on sale.
06-12-2013, 03:02 PM
#6
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 16,855
When your sound cuts you want to immediately check the amp - see if it is still on, see if there is a fault LED lit up, and see how hot it is. Should you take it back to Visions, they are going to want to know this info.
As for the bass output - sadly it is often the case where stock speakers produce more bass than aftermarket. Just the way it is. Past there though - see if your installer maybe set up the Pioneer deck or the amp with high pass filters. Often, even if the customer does not have a sub, I will activate them at 50-80hz to protect the speakers from being launched while trying to make bass best left to a subwoofer.
IMO you should reconsider a sub. You can get some pretty compact ones now and could use the rear channels on your amp for it while running the back speakers off of the deck. This is how a 4ch amp is commonly set up.
As for the bass output - sadly it is often the case where stock speakers produce more bass than aftermarket. Just the way it is. Past there though - see if your installer maybe set up the Pioneer deck or the amp with high pass filters. Often, even if the customer does not have a sub, I will activate them at 50-80hz to protect the speakers from being launched while trying to make bass best left to a subwoofer.
IMO you should reconsider a sub. You can get some pretty compact ones now and could use the rear channels on your amp for it while running the back speakers off of the deck. This is how a 4ch amp is commonly set up.
06-12-2013, 04:53 PM
#7
0 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7
That seems like good advice. The Deck should have enough for the lower powered speakers in the back and amp has enough kick to power a decent sub. Thank you.
What sub size/wattage / brand would you recommend for me based on what Ive got available ?
Last edited by Pawnz0rz; 06-12-2013 at 04:56 PM.
06-12-2013, 05:20 PM
#9
0 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Good to know. This is the kind of knowledge I expected the sales guys to have and relay to me. What the eff.
06-13-2013, 05:02 PM
#10
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 16,855
ehhh, it's kind of hard for a salesdude. You want speakers and he starts talking about sound deadening the doors (generally starts at a hundy a door) and next thing you don't buy speakers because the overall job just got expensive. Truly yes they should at least mention it but over time most just forget about it. I've been installing for a long-*** time and I have never, not one single time, had someone drop for sound deadening that was doing just a basic speaker upgrade. In fact I have had people put in fairly extensive systems and still not do it. Damn shame as it really does help. The deadening doesn't so much make an enclosure but isolates the front from the back to limit cancellation and also adds a bit of mass to help with impact. It's worth it IMO.
As for sub - that's a real personal thing. I would consider a single 10 in a vented box. Some may want more. If you want to save space, a flat 10 in a slim box might do the trick - Pioneer makes a nice prepackaged one. If your amp is accessible then any shop should have no problem letting you 'test drive' whatever they have on display by dropping it into the trunk and hooking it up for a few mins.
As for sub - that's a real personal thing. I would consider a single 10 in a vented box. Some may want more. If you want to save space, a flat 10 in a slim box might do the trick - Pioneer makes a nice prepackaged one. If your amp is accessible then any shop should have no problem letting you 'test drive' whatever they have on display by dropping it into the trunk and hooking it up for a few mins.
