I agree with a-pillar tweeters too, but I think you should try from 3-7k depending on the music you like and your taste. Try turning off the kick panel tweets as well, try it...every car is different.

 

simple answer witout a simple solution.

Place speakers where you want the sound to be.

Simple answer but kind of hard to fit a tweet, 4, and 6.5 anywhere in your car at eye level.

Rigth now you have another problem. A mid in the door. It's completly off axis, has completly different time arrival to your ears, and most likley covered with a factory door panel. I will bet dollars to donuts that the door panel (as with every car that has door speakers without HEAVY mods) is a passive radiator. It moves when the mid plays and it's not playing exactly what the 6.5 is. Put you hand on the door and feel how much it moves........but thats another episode.

I can't see how adding rear drivers and adding delay will give you heigth and more depth ? It simply doesn't work that way.

A big mistake people make is that processing will fix anything. Simply not true. If you don't have a good stage heigth/staging/imaging without processing it's never going to happen. Location and angles are THE only way to improve sound stage


Other ways to raise a stage (and improve imaging)

1: Use the least amount of drivers as possible, and keep them together (helps keep focus)

2: Try and get the drivers as far away from you , and as high up as possible.

3: Remove obstructions around the driver

4: The bottom of the dash WILL re-direct sound. do what ever you need to reduce this effect (obsorbtion, or re-construction)

5: Make each side of the dash symectical


Many ways to do it. But keep in mind ......you will reach the point that you can't make it any better in the car you have. You can only make a system play so well, then you just start messing it up again.

 

Wow...I've got to start taking notes on this stuff. Great post Jamie, thanks for taking the time to share the good stuff with us.

Now about your comment on the processing...I can totally endorse this from experience. I've made huge improvements to the image height/soundstage by playing with driver angles, and marginal increases (and decreases) in SQ playing with processing.

Running fewer drivers is definitely the way to go, unless you are willing to invest a billion hours into building and tunning. The best natural imaging in my car to date, was from a pair of 4" midranges playing full-range.


Adam

 

another comment (NOT A BASH)

For those metioning only tweets up high.

Most of the sound we listen to is in the 200hz-3000hz how does a tweeter up high help raise the stage in these key frequancies. It can't, the mid frequencies will still be comming off the airvents as he noted. although the 5-6-7k and up will be high. now you'll be running into a spearated sound stage, and image diffusion.

 

tweeters on 'a' pillars.....LMAO!!

 

Interesting. I`m thinking the same thing.

As far as tweeters up high (in my car) they only seem to widen things.

I`ve been aiming my mids off axis to add depth, but I think the same thing can be done with an active crossover.
So What comes first? crossover points... then angles?

To complicate things, you can`t get a good idea how freq response will be sound with a lack of low midrange/midbass when your trying to aim them... So if you angle your mids to sound decent, theres no way to tell how your staging will be affected...

Frustrating.

[ August 05, 2004, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Seahag ]

 

Fortunately there are some ground rules to play by that will ease the pain.

First, with respect to Midbass below about 120-150 HzHz is not very directional but is quite pathlenght dependent, so angle is not as important as pathlenght difference. That's why I like a separate midbass driver if you are looking for loud clean midbass.

Second, midrange & treble from 120 150 Hz up to 5000 - 6000 Hz contains the ever important imaging cues and soundstage info. So if you have an exceptional mid that plays from 120 up to 5000 clean (usually a 4" or a 5" with a metal dome dustcap) and you angle it optimally and equalize the pathlenghts as optimal as possible you should get a pretty exceptional starting point.

Third, it's a matter of taste and the particular vehicle for most people to install tweets up in the A-pillars and fire them across at each other following the curvature of the windshield... sometimes this sounds very good as long as they are x'd-over at least 6000 Hz or so. This information is mainly spatial and it's hard to pin down where it's coming from so it tends to give a good sense of air when done right although I wouldn't overlap the second set of tweets very much if at all with the first.

If you have a second set of tweets next to the mids in the kicks it gives you some options to play with x-over points and level setting and angling of both sets of tweets to find a nice balance but generally you want the info from the kicks to run up to at least 6000 Hz.

We haven't yet touched on early reflections too much... it's something I would like to hear your guys' ideas on ... underdash anti reflective panels etc.

 

I use melamine foam (did I spell that right) under my dash. It's the same material used in anocolic (more spelling issues) chamber walls. I've also tried felt and a few other foam products just for fun.