Very very interesting move..
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Oh I see your point Moe - people are trying to get as loud as they can and banning quads will certainly restrict that. There has been other restrictions too but mostly around keeping the vehicle a vehicle, even the extreme cars.
The way I see it, Wayne does not view the introduction of quad coils as any kind of technological advancement. Really all that has been added are more connection points to allow more amps. The only reason to need more amps is for SPL so that moves a quad coil speaker out of the 'general consumer' category and into 'specialized equipment'. Puts quads into the same category as the Drag Queen which was also banned.
You mention also about how something like pressurized gas is illegal because it is not something found in a more general everyday 12volt car audio system. I know someone here will pipe up just because but really Quads are generally not found on everyday systems either so I can see the reasoning. They have a single purpose.
Plus - as DWVW pointed out, none of the major manufacturers make one so they gotta go
The way I see it, Wayne does not view the introduction of quad coils as any kind of technological advancement. Really all that has been added are more connection points to allow more amps. The only reason to need more amps is for SPL so that moves a quad coil speaker out of the 'general consumer' category and into 'specialized equipment'. Puts quads into the same category as the Drag Queen which was also banned.
You mention also about how something like pressurized gas is illegal because it is not something found in a more general everyday 12volt car audio system. I know someone here will pipe up just because but really Quads are generally not found on everyday systems either so I can see the reasoning. They have a single purpose.
Plus - as DWVW pointed out, none of the major manufacturers make one so they gotta go
500 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 610
Good point Dukk [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] , I hadn't seen it from that viewpoint. But it makes me wonder, what was it like when there were only single voice coils and dual voice coil drivers were new to the industry ? Was the perception from some manufacturers the same ? They're too expensive for us to manufacture, nobody will buy them, only the pros will use them and so on... they almost seem to be the standard today, I wonder if the dual voice coil driver was looked upon in the same way when it first came out.
Hey ! And Chev 2, you bring up a good point too ! As a matter of fact, I have triple voice coil drivers in my Civic and Phoenix Gold manufactures them for the general public too. They're basically the Titanium Elite drivers with the third set of leads for the LED's switched over to handle the third voice coil. It looks pretty neat to see three amps on one sub !
Anyway, I do see your point Dukk, but I guess we have to agree to disagree. I believe Wayne's intent is good but his direction is off. By modifying the class structure would achieve the same result and let the people, who have invested their hard earned money in buying quad coil subs, play too.
Hey ! And Chev 2, you bring up a good point too ! As a matter of fact, I have triple voice coil drivers in my Civic and Phoenix Gold manufactures them for the general public too. They're basically the Titanium Elite drivers with the third set of leads for the LED's switched over to handle the third voice coil. It looks pretty neat to see three amps on one sub
!Anyway, I do see your point Dukk, but I guess we have to agree to disagree. I believe Wayne's intent is good but his direction is off. By modifying the class structure would achieve the same result and let the people, who have invested their hard earned money in buying quad coil subs, play too.
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,220
Originally posted by Moe Sab:
Hey ! And Chev 2, you bring up a good point too ! As a matter of fact, I have triple voice coil drivers in my Civic and Phoenix Gold manufactures them for the general public too. They're basically the Titanium Elite drivers with the third set of leads for the LED's switched over to handle the third voice coil. It looks pretty neat to see three amps on one sub !
Hey ! And Chev 2, you bring up a good point too ! As a matter of fact, I have triple voice coil drivers in my Civic and Phoenix Gold manufactures them for the general public too. They're basically the Titanium Elite drivers with the third set of leads for the LED's switched over to handle the third voice coil. It looks pretty neat to see three amps on one sub
!
.Maybe the main manufactures of spl subs will go triple voice coil.
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Good point Moe, but dual voice coil subs were introduced to allow more flexible wiring options, quad coil subs don't really allow more wiring options they just let you run 8 amps to one sub, which we all know isn't happening for any avrage customer.
[ November 27, 2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: DWVW ]
[ November 27, 2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: DWVW ]
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Two thoughts: I think there should be an outlaw class with no rules other than to keep it all in the car. Even more flexible than Extreme is now. No voltage limits (well, ok, How about 20 Volts), no woofer size, design or coil limit. Nothing. Let the crazies get it out of their system while we cheer them on like mad-men.
Second though, the exclusion of quads from competition would, if I was a manufacturer (thank heavens I'n not, eh?) drive me to come up with a different solution to the problem. There have been stories of MTX amps strapped and piggybacked. I understand that MTX claims this isn't possible. You could, should this be true, use four amps on a single coil woofer. If manufacturers see it my way, it's a challenge and an opportunity.
One HUGE benefit. Everyone I have spoken with is complaining about how heavy their vehicles are. Should this effectively cut the number of amps in half, it will redive the required number of batteries and make these behemoths (as cool as they are) easier to transport and maneuver.
My 0.00$ +15% tax...
Second though, the exclusion of quads from competition would, if I was a manufacturer (thank heavens I'n not, eh?) drive me to come up with a different solution to the problem. There have been stories of MTX amps strapped and piggybacked. I understand that MTX claims this isn't possible. You could, should this be true, use four amps on a single coil woofer. If manufacturers see it my way, it's a challenge and an opportunity.
One HUGE benefit. Everyone I have spoken with is complaining about how heavy their vehicles are. Should this effectively cut the number of amps in half, it will redive the required number of batteries and make these behemoths (as cool as they are) easier to transport and maneuver.
My 0.00$ +15% tax...
Second though, the exclusion of quads from competition would, if I was a manufacturer (thank heavens I'n not, eh?) drive me to come up with a different solution to the problem. There have been stories of MTX amps strapped and piggybacked. I understand that MTX claims this isn't possible. You could, should this be true, use four amps on a single coil woofer. If manufacturers see it my way, it's a challenge and an opportunity.
i know of a manufacturer that states both possible cenarios,but i don't know if simultaneuos strapping and linking are possible.it is the largest johnah lamu amplifier that Fusion makes
i know of a manufacturer that states both possible cenarios,but i don't know if simultaneuos strapping and linking are possible.it is the largest johnah lamu amplifier that Fusion makes
500 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 610
"I know someone here will pipe up just because but really Quads are generally not found on everyday systems either so I can see the reasoning."
At this point, this is true, they are not "generally" found on everyday systems, but some manufacturers do make them. At the IASCA Finals, I saw quad coils from Memphis, American Bass, Beyond Audio and others. Even though Wayne may (or has) banned them from competition, some manufacturers will still continue to produce them for retail sale to the general public. My thought is that eventually other manufacturers will once again start building them in order to gain market share, because they'll be losing share to the manufacturers that are building them.
Plus the fact dB Drag is not the only competition organization... there's IASCA, MECA, USAC, SLAP, NSPL and many others that will still allow the use of these drivers. And although I can't speak for many of those orgs, I do know that IASCA rules are designed as such to protect the average consumer/competitor, the "Everyday" guy/gal. In Stock IdBL classes, competitors are limited to one amp per sub and one additional battery. So if a Stock class competitor runs a quad coil in his system, he will either have to have an amp that will handle a 1 ohm or lower load or rewire the sub to accomodate the impedance of the amp under a bridged load, whether it be 1,2 or 4 ohms mono.
Also, to my knowledge there a number of manufacturers that build "strappable" amps right now, like US Amps, RF, Kicker and many others. I don't think multiple or "strappable" amps will ever go away, and if quad coil drivers are banned from dB Drag competitions the manufacturers and competitors will either find another way to increase SPL or move to another organization where they are accepted.
Thanks Chev 2, I kinda figured you were talking about my drivers, because I don't know anyone else nuts enough to use them except me! [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img] Who knows, that might be the next evolution in subwoofer design...
[ November 28, 2003, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Moe Sab ]
At this point, this is true, they are not "generally" found on everyday systems, but some manufacturers do make them. At the IASCA Finals, I saw quad coils from Memphis, American Bass, Beyond Audio and others. Even though Wayne may (or has) banned them from competition, some manufacturers will still continue to produce them for retail sale to the general public. My thought is that eventually other manufacturers will once again start building them in order to gain market share, because they'll be losing share to the manufacturers that are building them.
Plus the fact dB Drag is not the only competition organization... there's IASCA, MECA, USAC, SLAP, NSPL and many others that will still allow the use of these drivers. And although I can't speak for many of those orgs, I do know that IASCA rules are designed as such to protect the average consumer/competitor, the "Everyday" guy/gal. In Stock IdBL classes, competitors are limited to one amp per sub and one additional battery. So if a Stock class competitor runs a quad coil in his system, he will either have to have an amp that will handle a 1 ohm or lower load or rewire the sub to accomodate the impedance of the amp under a bridged load, whether it be 1,2 or 4 ohms mono.
Also, to my knowledge there a number of manufacturers that build "strappable" amps right now, like US Amps, RF, Kicker and many others. I don't think multiple or "strappable" amps will ever go away, and if quad coil drivers are banned from dB Drag competitions the manufacturers and competitors will either find another way to increase SPL or move to another organization where they are accepted.
Thanks Chev 2, I kinda figured you were talking about my drivers, because I don't know anyone else nuts enough to use them except me! [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img] Who knows, that might be the next evolution in subwoofer design...
[ November 28, 2003, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Moe Sab ]
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