x-border shopping
05-11-2005, 06:46 AM
#1
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
There’s an interesting post in the "GENERAL" Section on buying from Sounddomain and cross border shopping period. From what I read there was some very compelling points brought forth by TH at the top of page 2. So I have a few thoughts, some of them may be good and others may be way off, but I’ll toss them out there anyways. And I’m just speaking in generalities from a personal point of view.
The Canadian industry is very quick to jump on people about buying locally and supporting the local dealers and stores. I do believe that this is good. It is very important to our livelihood. But are we resting our business dealings too quickly on this???? Do we want to impose cross border restrictions to stop people from getting better deals and customer service just so we can continue to be sloppy about how we sell and deal with business?? I’m not sure. I know there are some very good dealers and there are some that are not so good. Same goes with reps and distributors. And I also know how the pricing game works and how things compare to our American neighbours for the most part. Furthermore, it costs money to do business here in Canada. But is it possible to be on par with the yanks in pricing and service and give people a good reason to shop on this side of the line?????
With regards to the whole warrantee thing, it seems to fade away with a lot of people as most problems with gear (that people want to respect and take care of) will usual happen at start up. That's when it will *pop* due to manufacturer's defect. After that, it's pretty much user abuse for the most part. So if it blows, it's on the customer’s ticket and they pretty much know it. And to ship cross-border for warrantee is not REALLY that much of a big issue for single pieces of equipment. Sure, it costs a little bit and there’s some effort involved, but not much more then it take to drive to a dealer and wait for them to deal with it. And sometimes have to wait a very long time for the dealer to deal with the repair or warrantee (unless it’s just a direct swap, assuming the dealer has stock). So where is the big difference??
And then there's customer service attitude that he describes and the pricing that easily forces people to a Sounddomain sort of purchase very quickly. Especially if great customer service is being provided via internet sales provider. Sure, there are some restrictions in place that don't allow these places to sell to Canada for example, but he's a prime example of this system failing. And speaking personally, if he's getting that sort of customer service from SD and he can't find it locally, we're definitely doing something wrong somewhere.
I don’t like x-border shopping as it hurts business. But from a customer point of view, hard to fault some of the experience that TH had and why he went to SD.
The Canadian industry is very quick to jump on people about buying locally and supporting the local dealers and stores. I do believe that this is good. It is very important to our livelihood. But are we resting our business dealings too quickly on this???? Do we want to impose cross border restrictions to stop people from getting better deals and customer service just so we can continue to be sloppy about how we sell and deal with business?? I’m not sure. I know there are some very good dealers and there are some that are not so good. Same goes with reps and distributors. And I also know how the pricing game works and how things compare to our American neighbours for the most part. Furthermore, it costs money to do business here in Canada. But is it possible to be on par with the yanks in pricing and service and give people a good reason to shop on this side of the line?????
With regards to the whole warrantee thing, it seems to fade away with a lot of people as most problems with gear (that people want to respect and take care of) will usual happen at start up. That's when it will *pop* due to manufacturer's defect. After that, it's pretty much user abuse for the most part. So if it blows, it's on the customer’s ticket and they pretty much know it. And to ship cross-border for warrantee is not REALLY that much of a big issue for single pieces of equipment. Sure, it costs a little bit and there’s some effort involved, but not much more then it take to drive to a dealer and wait for them to deal with it. And sometimes have to wait a very long time for the dealer to deal with the repair or warrantee (unless it’s just a direct swap, assuming the dealer has stock). So where is the big difference??
And then there's customer service attitude that he describes and the pricing that easily forces people to a Sounddomain sort of purchase very quickly. Especially if great customer service is being provided via internet sales provider. Sure, there are some restrictions in place that don't allow these places to sell to Canada for example, but he's a prime example of this system failing. And speaking personally, if he's getting that sort of customer service from SD and he can't find it locally, we're definitely doing something wrong somewhere.
I don’t like x-border shopping as it hurts business. But from a customer point of view, hard to fault some of the experience that TH had and why he went to SD.
05-11-2005, 07:23 AM
#2
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Posts: n/a
th does have good points, the advantage online selling ahs is that it doesnt give the customer a chance to be mistreated until after they online retailer has its money, then at that point its to late. th was mistreated before spending a dime. he comes across to me as a type of guy that does alot of online research and felt he made a educated decision based on that research, and good on him. its unfurtunate that he didnt have better experiences in his local retailers, but for that we cant blame him, he took the path of least resistance and chose not to have to get educated by a person face to face and do it online, its a shame really, dollars earned in canada i would like to see stay in canada, but when canada doesnt support him, what else is a guy with 8k in his pocket supposed to do. as much as we all speak out about it, the warranty issue isnt really that big of a deal, but our scare tactic attemps in the non hbv forums to warn potentail buyers hopefully doesnt always fall on deaf ears
05-11-2005, 08:00 AM
#3
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There is a great couple threads on Carsound that I have been watching closely that relate to this topic. One thing I said, is that it takes just one bad shop to ruin the business of every other good local shop. In this day and age people don't want to drive around and ask questions. They want to go somewhere and buy something now. If the first shop they go to sucks, they assume they all do and head right to the internet. Really no one could police this except maybe the manufacturers or distributors. Really only they can hold their dealers to any standards. If I run a shop and know about another hack shop that sucks at customer service, I can't really take an ad out in the paper explaining that. Look at it like car dealerships. The customer percieves them as an extension of the manufacturer, when really they aren't, they are just as independant as car audio stores. But the manufacturers do audits of dealerships to make sure they are up to standards, and trust me there are repurcussions when you fail an audit. And the audits are more than just checking inventory. I think if manufacturers adopted this they would see a smaller dealer base initially, but in the long run, they would have a much more profitable business.
05-11-2005, 08:21 AM
#4
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,357
If you want to get into border shopping you maze well include drop shipping. That’s what’s killing the market in the USA and affects us so much up here. A lot of companies don't expect there retail shop to keep stock( internet stores come out of the wood works) they sell the item never even seeing it and keeping there costs soo low(never had to buy the stock or pay interest on it)... and that’s why I say to support your local dealers because they do carry stock and they will install it if needed..
Has anyone else noticed shipping is crazy right now? Every person that orders from the USA speaks of it and its starting to detour people from buying online, I had just inquired about a fiberglass piece at a company I deal with on such things and it was going to cost 389 dollars US to ship it, the part was only worth 289 US.
Want to check your competition? Just go to old Ebay and type in your lines you carry, I know I've done it.. Why is there so many new in box items on there anyhow? It just seems to easy for people to get this stuff and put it on ebay.
I'd rather have my stuff on the internet then on ebay I guess.
Has anyone else noticed shipping is crazy right now? Every person that orders from the USA speaks of it and its starting to detour people from buying online, I had just inquired about a fiberglass piece at a company I deal with on such things and it was going to cost 389 dollars US to ship it, the part was only worth 289 US.
Want to check your competition? Just go to old Ebay and type in your lines you carry, I know I've done it.. Why is there so many new in box items on there anyhow? It just seems to easy for people to get this stuff and put it on ebay.
I'd rather have my stuff on the internet then on ebay I guess.
05-11-2005, 09:49 AM
#5
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 758
How about the guy you do treat properly and respectfully, who just wasted 30 minutes of your time? This is the guy who comes in and acts like a buyer, to get all the info, a quick demo of the product, and your professional opinion... all knowing that he is going to buy it online! these jerks are not nearly as rare as you might think.
We had a guy come in and do that on a Nikon camera. Tried hard to close him, just couldnt get him to buy, then he comes back a week later looking for the case that the NY camera shop had on back order. When we told him that it was a special order, and as such paid in advance and non refundable, he flipped and said we werent giving him good service. How do you deal with an asshat like this?
I hope his cameras break down, because then I can show him the grey market notice from Nikon and say "thank you, come again, dont let the door hit your *** on the way out"
Sure there are times when local shops drop the ball... but the person who buys online is often the sanme person who yanks your chain for info and demos, wasting your time when you could be dealing with someone who wants to buy from your shop.
Yeah, we all need to give good customer service... but as someone said in a previous post "Buyers are liars". Not saying that TH hasnt had problems, but how many times have you wondered why that guy you treated well and was lovin' the gear didnt buy. Just maybe he stuck it in your *** by going online and saving himself 50 bucks.
We had a guy come in and do that on a Nikon camera. Tried hard to close him, just couldnt get him to buy, then he comes back a week later looking for the case that the NY camera shop had on back order. When we told him that it was a special order, and as such paid in advance and non refundable, he flipped and said we werent giving him good service. How do you deal with an asshat like this?
I hope his cameras break down, because then I can show him the grey market notice from Nikon and say "thank you, come again, dont let the door hit your *** on the way out"
Sure there are times when local shops drop the ball... but the person who buys online is often the sanme person who yanks your chain for info and demos, wasting your time when you could be dealing with someone who wants to buy from your shop.
Yeah, we all need to give good customer service... but as someone said in a previous post "Buyers are liars". Not saying that TH hasnt had problems, but how many times have you wondered why that guy you treated well and was lovin' the gear didnt buy. Just maybe he stuck it in your *** by going online and saving himself 50 bucks.
05-13-2005, 06:58 AM
#7
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true recent story. a good friend of mine(i mc'ed his wedding) asks if he could use the shop to try his hand a building his first fibreglass bix underneath the back seat of his 04 dodge quadcab for a couple of old solobaric 12" woofers his brother gives him, i say no problem just dont get in the way and pay for materials, boy im a nice guy. he builds the box and asks what amlifiers i would recommend for them. i recommend brand x amplifiers and we talk for a good half hour or so about the amps and what sort of wire that he would need, blah blah blah. i go through and give him a 10 point quote on the ampand wire, killer deal right, well he goes online and buys the amps, wire and all the stuff to sounddeaden the doors and floor, comes in and asks how much to put it all in, i say 65/amp, 50 for you subbox(which i carpeted for him because he was having troubles)250 to sounddeden, 45 for rear speakers, and 150 for the front component speakers, about 6 hun in labour and looked at me and laghed like i was kidding, i looked at him and said no im not. so he gets a little bent, tried to do it himself with a buddy and proceed to mangulate his install, i mean bootcher job. i listen to it and it sounds unfriendly. he asks me to look and i told him i would have time in 3 weeks cuz we are booked, and he saays can you just come and look for 5 minutes, and i said, i already did and it will take me 600$ in labour to fix it and i can do it in 3 weeks, like i said in the first place, havent talked to him fo about a week now so i think he is still torked that i would help him, i really wanted to say that he hadnt earned my help, and he still hasnt paid for the materials for building his box, somtimes im too nice of a guy
05-13-2005, 07:54 AM
#8
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
Some interesting points here. There's a lot of stuff that really sucks at the dealer level with regards to customers, but generally speaking, the internet IS a HUGE resource of information. And you don't have to leave home to use it. So many consumers go on what they hear on the internet (ie. Alpine is the best there is!!) or what their buddies tell them.
I agree with the comment that a bad apple can ruin it for many others. How many times in school did someone screw up and the whole class paid for it???? It sucks but is a reality of the real world.
What do you guys think.......... do you think manufactuers/distributors are educating Canadian Dealers and their sales staff enough about product and closing sales so that there are smart people on the floor selling and smarter people in the bays installing ??? Or is this a hole in the process?
To the dealers/installers/sales-guys, how much time do you spend educating yourself about being a top notch saleperson, how to deal with people, etc, etc?? Do you guys spend time in this area or just wing it and chalk up experience as it comes??
I agree with the comment that a bad apple can ruin it for many others. How many times in school did someone screw up and the whole class paid for it???? It sucks but is a reality of the real world.
What do you guys think.......... do you think manufactuers/distributors are educating Canadian Dealers and their sales staff enough about product and closing sales so that there are smart people on the floor selling and smarter people in the bays installing ??? Or is this a hole in the process?
To the dealers/installers/sales-guys, how much time do you spend educating yourself about being a top notch saleperson, how to deal with people, etc, etc?? Do you guys spend time in this area or just wing it and chalk up experience as it comes??
05-13-2005, 08:29 AM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
I try and learn as much as possible about the sales side of it as well. I wish I had the time and money to go to things like MERA's knowledgefest and take the sales seminar's. Especially things like Bryan Schmitt's "How to sell custom labor" type courses.
I really think the manufacturers and distributors dropped the ball about ten years ago. Rockford had the right idea with RTTI, but I think they may have implemented it wrong. Manufacturers will sell to anyone with the money for opening orders nowadays. I think that they need to check up more on their dealers. They should be doing audits, real audits on every aspect of the business, not just making sure their product is the most prominently displayed. I think that what I am thinking of may eventually happen given the consolidation in the industry. With companies such as DEI, Mitek, Rockford etc, having so much brands, I can see dealers more and more just dealing with two or so manufacturer "groups" and tieing themselves to those brands. Similar to what car dealerships are like. People don't go into the car dealerships thinking they are dealing with a local business, they think they are dealing with the car manufacturer. But the car manufacturer does highly monitor almost all aspects of their privately owned dealer "partners" And if something isn't up to standards there are repurcusions. Would something like this hurt alot of audio dealers in the short and long term? Yes, there could be additional expenses to bring shops up to standards, and many shops simply wouldn't be able to meet the standards. Would it hurt the manufacturers and distributors short term? Yes, they may not have as many dealers after implementation and it would cost money to have reps who actually visit the stores and do the audits. But in the long run the manufacturers and the smart dealers would profit from such a system in such a huge way. Could you imagine quoting a shop rate of $80 an hour and not having to worry about the customer freaking out? Could you imagine a dealer and supplier relationship where everyone is on the same page and working mutually to improve the entire industry? I hope that someday this sort of thing is true and not a dream, but I am not holding my breath, because short term pain for long term gain is not practiced by anyone in any industry (with the possible exception of the Klein government).
Anyways that's my $0.02
I really think the manufacturers and distributors dropped the ball about ten years ago. Rockford had the right idea with RTTI, but I think they may have implemented it wrong. Manufacturers will sell to anyone with the money for opening orders nowadays. I think that they need to check up more on their dealers. They should be doing audits, real audits on every aspect of the business, not just making sure their product is the most prominently displayed. I think that what I am thinking of may eventually happen given the consolidation in the industry. With companies such as DEI, Mitek, Rockford etc, having so much brands, I can see dealers more and more just dealing with two or so manufacturer "groups" and tieing themselves to those brands. Similar to what car dealerships are like. People don't go into the car dealerships thinking they are dealing with a local business, they think they are dealing with the car manufacturer. But the car manufacturer does highly monitor almost all aspects of their privately owned dealer "partners" And if something isn't up to standards there are repurcusions. Would something like this hurt alot of audio dealers in the short and long term? Yes, there could be additional expenses to bring shops up to standards, and many shops simply wouldn't be able to meet the standards. Would it hurt the manufacturers and distributors short term? Yes, they may not have as many dealers after implementation and it would cost money to have reps who actually visit the stores and do the audits. But in the long run the manufacturers and the smart dealers would profit from such a system in such a huge way. Could you imagine quoting a shop rate of $80 an hour and not having to worry about the customer freaking out? Could you imagine a dealer and supplier relationship where everyone is on the same page and working mutually to improve the entire industry? I hope that someday this sort of thing is true and not a dream, but I am not holding my breath, because short term pain for long term gain is not practiced by anyone in any industry (with the possible exception of the Klein government).
Anyways that's my $0.02
05-13-2005, 04:10 PM
#10
I have to say, that the internet is becoming more and more of a pain in the ***. I too have experienced consumers coming to me, asking for advice and then buying online and trying to do it themselves and then coming back for advice when they screw it up. I told the last guy who wasted my time that I would only help him if he bought gear from me -- I made it simple: no gear, no advice.
