x-border shopping
I'm going to save my "pro Internet" speech because I know that not everyone here agrees with me.
I just wanted to explain how a consumer can be turned away from shopping local.
Shop 1) I had a couple of buddies who had been using one of the local shops. Between the two of them I'm sure they spent close to a couple grand in gear alone. I have no idea how much on labour but it was all installed by the shop.
I got a pretty good deal on a used Alpine deck from my bro-in-law so I brought it to them to have it installed. I brought in (everything was there and it was in mint condition) and they ended up screwing up the install. They told me the thing wouldn't turn on and it kept popping fuses. I was very surprised because it's not like my bro would screw me..... but I bought the Clarion unit they were selling along with the install/wiring harness/dash kit.. everything. It seemed fishy but I figured it was just bad luck on my part.
Then a month or two later I heard about one of my buddies that I had mentioned earlier. He had an Alpine alarm installed there. After a few months the system just started to suck. It wasn't arming properly, the remote had NO range, and the alarm would occasionally go off for no reason. He brought it back to them to have it fixed up and they took a look at it for the first time with no problems. They were never able to fix it though! After he brought it back the 2nd or 3rd time, buying different parts each time they told him that they didn't make any money doing repair work for him, so he shouldn't bother coming back.
So even though they botched the install and he had a bad product they refused to fix it. Even after he was willing to pay for extra parts (range extenders or something). This made me realise that my HU probably had no issues at all and they just wanted the sale.
Shop 2) After I sold the car that ^^ the HU was already installed in to I wanted to put my Clarion unit into a new car. Due to the problems I had with the first place I wanted to try it on my own. I went to a different shop and asked them for the dash kit, wiring harness, and anything else I would need. They sold me everything but something seemed odd. The dash kit they sold me was just the plastic sleeve. I went back the next day asking for a bit of info saying it didn't seem right. While there I also purchased some more wire to install an amp. They assured me I had the right item and sent me on my way. It ended up not being the right piece and what they sold me was essentially useless. I found the right kid on-line and found there were a bunch of extra pieces that weren't included.
On top of those two places I'm either ignored every time I go in to a shop or their hours are so terrible that it's next to impossible for me to get there when they're open.
And believe me I am NOT the type of customer that wastes someone's time. If I'm not shopping with cash in hand I always tell them up front that I am just looking. If they are still interested in talking with me, because they aren't busy or something, I really appreciate it, but I have no expectation.
So after trying 3-4 different shops I've lost all confidence in my city's audio shops. Why would NOT shop on line? I get my product and I get saved the BS.
[ May 13, 2005, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: JordyO ]
I just wanted to explain how a consumer can be turned away from shopping local.
Shop 1) I had a couple of buddies who had been using one of the local shops. Between the two of them I'm sure they spent close to a couple grand in gear alone. I have no idea how much on labour but it was all installed by the shop.
I got a pretty good deal on a used Alpine deck from my bro-in-law so I brought it to them to have it installed. I brought in (everything was there and it was in mint condition) and they ended up screwing up the install. They told me the thing wouldn't turn on and it kept popping fuses. I was very surprised because it's not like my bro would screw me..... but I bought the Clarion unit they were selling along with the install/wiring harness/dash kit.. everything. It seemed fishy but I figured it was just bad luck on my part.
Then a month or two later I heard about one of my buddies that I had mentioned earlier. He had an Alpine alarm installed there. After a few months the system just started to suck. It wasn't arming properly, the remote had NO range, and the alarm would occasionally go off for no reason. He brought it back to them to have it fixed up and they took a look at it for the first time with no problems. They were never able to fix it though! After he brought it back the 2nd or 3rd time, buying different parts each time they told him that they didn't make any money doing repair work for him, so he shouldn't bother coming back.
So even though they botched the install and he had a bad product they refused to fix it. Even after he was willing to pay for extra parts (range extenders or something). This made me realise that my HU probably had no issues at all and they just wanted the sale.
Shop 2) After I sold the car that ^^ the HU was already installed in to I wanted to put my Clarion unit into a new car. Due to the problems I had with the first place I wanted to try it on my own. I went to a different shop and asked them for the dash kit, wiring harness, and anything else I would need. They sold me everything but something seemed odd. The dash kit they sold me was just the plastic sleeve. I went back the next day asking for a bit of info saying it didn't seem right. While there I also purchased some more wire to install an amp. They assured me I had the right item and sent me on my way. It ended up not being the right piece and what they sold me was essentially useless. I found the right kid on-line and found there were a bunch of extra pieces that weren't included.
On top of those two places I'm either ignored every time I go in to a shop or their hours are so terrible that it's next to impossible for me to get there when they're open.
And believe me I am NOT the type of customer that wastes someone's time. If I'm not shopping with cash in hand I always tell them up front that I am just looking. If they are still interested in talking with me, because they aren't busy or something, I really appreciate it, but I have no expectation.
So after trying 3-4 different shops I've lost all confidence in my city's audio shops. Why would NOT shop on line? I get my product and I get saved the BS.
[ May 13, 2005, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: JordyO ]
Guest
Posts: n/a
every problem wou just explained could very easily of happenened with online shopping as well, the deck very well may have been broken, the alarm may have been fualty and not install related, even if the alarm was installed poorly, it might of happend regardless(you would of had to get it installed somewhere, and you just as easily mcould have been sold the wrong dash kit by the online company. if i were to recommend anything, it would be to ask for the owner or manager when shopping locally, its your best chance at getting good service, and if you get still get poor servicem shop online
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
Really good thread here guys.
It's really refreshing to see the focus being the industry as a whole versus being product specific. I personally think there is a massive gap between the manufacturers, and the end users. Everyone on the commercial retail side seems to be struggling to span the gap between these 2 groups.
I see an industry that has come into adolescence. I'll explain this by illustrating the 3 phases of a business with relation to fiscal performance.
Stage 1.) This is the logistical stage of setting up what you will do. For car audio, it's the manufacturing, distribution, and installation of product. Initially the ROI (return on investment) is very good, but it starts to become diluted as supply exceeds demand. (Mid 90s car audio)
Stage 2.) This is the policies stage of establishing how you will do something. For car audio, this is warrantee and sales policy. In the mid 90s, companies started isolating loss on the P&L, and this was controlled with new policies and procedures for doing business.
Stage 3.) This is the behavioral stage of business. Also referred to as "soft skills", this is where step #1 and #2 are functioning as well as they can, but there still are many missed opportunities. Behavioral programs are the hardest to implement because they involve the most amount of training, coaching, and mentoring. The end result is one single skill being worked on the most; listening!
The industry right now is hovering just past stage #2, with a few people really taking on stage #3 with success. Reading this thread, I see a lot of people that are knees deep in stage #3.
Most every problem within the industry right now, including Jordy's, can be sourced back to people not listening. Either at some stage in technical training, interacting with the consumer, or not listening to what the damn car is trying to tell you with blowing fuses.
Websites, ordering systems, and customer support infrastructures are set up and managed by people that know how to listen. With Internet sales, communication lines are engineered to listen to customers. They surpass the average shop salesman’s ability to listen by design.
This is where the massive gap between the manufacturers and consumers comes in. The Internet product still ends up in the hands of a shop that has mediocre soft skills to install it. This process re-enforces the consumer’s belief that the Internet is better.
The initial sale was easy, and the price was good. Positive experience.
Then the after sale service (installation) at the local shop was a step down from this experience. Either by being resentful of the Internet sale, or by messing up a basic customer interaction, opportunities are missed.
We as an industry are failing to recognize the positive results of pure Internet sales. I am an active advocate of supporting local shops. If the market is shifting towards low margin Internet sales, develop the product that the Internet will NEVER be able to compete with.
Excellent personal interaction. Excellent installations.
There will always be a battle waged between market demand and supply. From a general business perspective, most companies these days are profitable because of adding value to product. Shops are at a point right now where it is very difficult to ad value by lowering prices. There is just no way to compete with high volume Internet sales on that front.
Developing stage #3 is what is needed. Being a country with a smaller dealer base, I think it’s an advantage when looking at developing soft skills. Putting on 4 or 5 dealer training seminars every year would cover a lot of territory. Where in the US, it would cover maybe ONE large city. This would make CANADA a good place to do business more often than not.
Dereck; your idea about auditing is very good. Within a company I’m involved with, there is an Integrity Management System that covers 20 key standards within the operation. I get audited a lot, and it always brings people to a point of learning.
I think within any successful industry, there are individuals and companies that show positive vision and integrity in how business is done. There are a few of these people within the Canadian industry on this very thread.
Cross-boarder shopping will turn in our favor, when we as an industry learn to listen better.
...steps off podium...
Adam
It's really refreshing to see the focus being the industry as a whole versus being product specific. I personally think there is a massive gap between the manufacturers, and the end users. Everyone on the commercial retail side seems to be struggling to span the gap between these 2 groups.
I see an industry that has come into adolescence. I'll explain this by illustrating the 3 phases of a business with relation to fiscal performance.
Stage 1.) This is the logistical stage of setting up what you will do. For car audio, it's the manufacturing, distribution, and installation of product. Initially the ROI (return on investment) is very good, but it starts to become diluted as supply exceeds demand. (Mid 90s car audio)
Stage 2.) This is the policies stage of establishing how you will do something. For car audio, this is warrantee and sales policy. In the mid 90s, companies started isolating loss on the P&L, and this was controlled with new policies and procedures for doing business.
Stage 3.) This is the behavioral stage of business. Also referred to as "soft skills", this is where step #1 and #2 are functioning as well as they can, but there still are many missed opportunities. Behavioral programs are the hardest to implement because they involve the most amount of training, coaching, and mentoring. The end result is one single skill being worked on the most; listening!
The industry right now is hovering just past stage #2, with a few people really taking on stage #3 with success. Reading this thread, I see a lot of people that are knees deep in stage #3.
Most every problem within the industry right now, including Jordy's, can be sourced back to people not listening. Either at some stage in technical training, interacting with the consumer, or not listening to what the damn car is trying to tell you with blowing fuses.
Websites, ordering systems, and customer support infrastructures are set up and managed by people that know how to listen. With Internet sales, communication lines are engineered to listen to customers. They surpass the average shop salesman’s ability to listen by design.
This is where the massive gap between the manufacturers and consumers comes in. The Internet product still ends up in the hands of a shop that has mediocre soft skills to install it. This process re-enforces the consumer’s belief that the Internet is better.
The initial sale was easy, and the price was good. Positive experience.
Then the after sale service (installation) at the local shop was a step down from this experience. Either by being resentful of the Internet sale, or by messing up a basic customer interaction, opportunities are missed.
We as an industry are failing to recognize the positive results of pure Internet sales. I am an active advocate of supporting local shops. If the market is shifting towards low margin Internet sales, develop the product that the Internet will NEVER be able to compete with.
Excellent personal interaction. Excellent installations.
There will always be a battle waged between market demand and supply. From a general business perspective, most companies these days are profitable because of adding value to product. Shops are at a point right now where it is very difficult to ad value by lowering prices. There is just no way to compete with high volume Internet sales on that front.
Developing stage #3 is what is needed. Being a country with a smaller dealer base, I think it’s an advantage when looking at developing soft skills. Putting on 4 or 5 dealer training seminars every year would cover a lot of territory. Where in the US, it would cover maybe ONE large city. This would make CANADA a good place to do business more often than not.
Dereck; your idea about auditing is very good. Within a company I’m involved with, there is an Integrity Management System that covers 20 key standards within the operation. I get audited a lot, and it always brings people to a point of learning.
I think within any successful industry, there are individuals and companies that show positive vision and integrity in how business is done. There are a few of these people within the Canadian industry on this very thread.
Cross-boarder shopping will turn in our favor, when we as an industry learn to listen better.
...steps off podium...
Adam
JordyO, I am sorry to hear about your experiences. From what you have said it does not sound like you were treated fairly. Incidents like that hurt all or us as a whole because it gives consumers a bad impression of the car audio industry. Your example reminds me of the saying "if you don't help your customers, someone else will".
Adam, I have to say you have just made one of the most informed and well thought out posts I have ever read by anyone on any board. I can honestly say I have just learned something from you, thanks. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] Your post has given me something new to think about.
Adam, I have to say you have just made one of the most informed and well thought out posts I have ever read by anyone on any board. I can honestly say I have just learned something from you, thanks. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] Your post has given me something new to think about.
Guest
Posts: n/a
That's the point of my post, that there are shops out there that have no business being in business. They ruin the customer experience and the customer says screw it and goes to the internet, who can blame them? If the suppliers held the shops to a higher standard, these shops wouldn't be able to get product and would be out of business alot sooner, leaving room for dedicated professional specialists. Of course you will never hear a supplier say "sorry your shop does not measure up to our standards" when money is involved.
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
Thank you for the complement Mike.
I've got a lot to learn though.
Dereck, it's common practice in larger businesses to audit subcontractors and/or partners. I think a good start in that direction would be a mission statement that is read and signed by all employees before the dealer agreement is signed. People need to understand the standards before they are judged on them. The flip side of this is that I feel the Rep's job is to help dealers achieve the objectives set out in a mission statement.
Dereck and Tim, what sort of objectives would you like to see a distributer representive help you achieve?
Adam
I've got a lot to learn though.
Dereck, it's common practice in larger businesses to audit subcontractors and/or partners. I think a good start in that direction would be a mission statement that is read and signed by all employees before the dealer agreement is signed. People need to understand the standards before they are judged on them. The flip side of this is that I feel the Rep's job is to help dealers achieve the objectives set out in a mission statement.
Dereck and Tim, what sort of objectives would you like to see a distributer representive help you achieve?
Adam
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ChrisB
Canadian General Car Audio Discussion
65
Aug 29, 2004 03:27 AM
Moe Sab
Canadian General Car Audio Discussion
13
Aug 12, 2003 05:53 PM
ShockingCanada
Canadian General Car Audio Discussion
3
Aug 1, 2003 02:33 PM
