I am staring up my league once again. I am moving in to larger markets and I expect to see more cars and higher numbers. In the past I had 3 classes.

Class 1 - 1-10",1-12",2-10"
Class 2 - 3-10",2-12",1-15"
Class 3 - 2-15",3-4-12" plus walls

There was no power limit and I had many customers buy 1000-2000 watt amps to win.

I know if I hold shows in Toronto, Markham, and Brantford I am going to see some of the more experienced cars come out. How do I keep my amateurs happy and not piss off the veterans. I am buying trophies for the top two in every class and I would like to do the same if I add more classes but I can't go too far. If I add 3 more classes and have <2000 watt classes and >2000 watt class would this work. The entry fee will be 15-20 dollars. All I really need is 20 cars to show up to pay the bills. Will this work?

Give me your input.

[ February 13, 2005, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: NTOXKTD ]

20 cars wouldn't be too hard to get and if you look at it, most of the serious db draggers have 3000+ watts. I think that you propose a good solution [img]smile.gif[/img]

were and when and i be there [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

I have 20 shows in the works. They will be on Thursday and Friday nights. Maybe 1 or 2 Sundays. I will have a points system in effect. All shows will be 1x shows with maybe a 2x show in August. Anyone wanting to attend the finals or qualify to win the big prizes at the finals will need to purchase a membership card. The last two years I have given the points leaders of each class $500 in prizes. I hope to do something similar this year. Just wait and see what happens this summer. This will be the 4th season. It has grown from 2 stores to now almost 10 stores. More to come soon.

I'm in!

The split at 2000 watts per class is a great idea [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

This way the new guys don't feel too bad getting smoked against a vet. Plus gives them a chance to advance themselves to the higher classes and learn from the more experienced competitors.

Hope to hear more bout this :D

u guys dont think that a pro competitor would still smoke the noobs even with a 2000 watt amp??

Most pro's have higher than that

It gives a chance for they guy who has a 500 watt amp to win and have fun doing so

No doubt the pro would still smoke them, although I doubt there will be a lot of pros buying smaller amps if they don't already own them just to use for this small league ;)

yah i agree but what im saying is for a league like this a pro guy wouldnt even need to put all his gear in. just half and still win over the rookie type guys.

I remember seeing Yuli at the Phantom Car Audio show last summer, he hit over 153 db's with just one 12 and one amp on their AC meter. This show was for amatures so he took half his gear out to be fair, yet he still destroyed everyone, even the guys with 2 15's, 2 18's, 3 12's, 4 10's and 4 12's who had just as much power as him. He had like 6 db's on them.

How about Peter from MTA he hit over 149.5 on the termlab with one 12 and one amp.

I dont know how many ppl would remember ammature EHR spl shows from maybe a couple years back when Tom Adams came and they didnt want to let him compete b/c he's pro. then he took half his gear out and they let him go in b/c he had same power as everyone (and apperantly became ammature enough lol).........he whipped out a 153 db on their termlab with 1 12 and one viper amp....totally smoking everyone else. Not to mention that he did 157 at the same show with all of his gear in place, imagine how encouraging it must have been for all the guys that did 140's in that same class.

Really its all in the box and how much time u put into it and how well u know your vehicle.

[ February 14, 2005, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Prolifik ]

Ya that's true. The only thing is though, the newbs have a better chance if there is a division of classes. I agree that they will still get smoked, but they might be able to get 2nd or 3rd if almost all of the pros aren't in their class.

Prolififk...you got it...its all in the box and the amount of time you spend testing and tuning... 0.1 db at a time [img]smile.gif[/img]
I used all "off the shelf equipment" last year except the DD3512 that I borowed from Chris B just to test out..it gained me a fair bit because It had the coils I needed at the time to get full power out of my amp

Props to yuli [img]graemlins/bow.gif[/img]

This is a small circuit and it seems it's going to expand, and if so, Richard has to work on the details. Remember, this is just to get more ppl into the sport and so far it's working.
Keep up the good work Rich [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

hehehehe well back to Phantom Show, the placement went like this

153 was Yuli, 1st place
152 was Mark McGrath 2nd place he's not a rookie by far
and couple 151's were done by Martini Chiason who's not really a newb and another female competitor named Madelyn who had her box built and designed by Yuli

yuli had 1 12, matnini had 2 12's and madelyn had 1 15........all the amature guys with big set ups with 15's and 18's and 4 12's didnt place at all

I appreciate all the comments. I will definately move anyone up at my own discretion. If any of the vets show up I will be more that happy to enter you but be sure it will be in the higher class. I may move the power class down so it is not worth entering. I really trully want only new guys entering and grow this business. If all the vets did was smoke everyone to do what get another trophy we would be no better of this year as we were last year. If you want the manufacturers to support you the customer they need to sell more. I can tell you right now most of the vets are not purchasing product from any of the dealers. The ones that will purchase product (ex. bigger amp, more subs, new box) are the new guys in the smaller classes. If they get smoked they are not comming back. I had 63 AMATEUR competitors at my shows last year. None of them hit over 150db on the pressure sensor and that is fine by me.

Sounds like you've got a great plan in the works so long as none of the "veterans" turn in to punks and complain because they miss the whole point of the show.

If you were coming up my way I'd be there for sure! (and bring a few friends to compete in the "amature" classes)

i feel its wrong to hold shows with sole purpose to make ppl buy stuff, thats abusing the sport

I am not making people buy stuff. Where did you get that idea. The dealers while only survive if customers purchase product from them. By holding an event for a customer with a ex.600 watt Kenwood amp I am offering the customer an opportunity to see what his system can do with the system he has purchased. I don't hink it is fair for him to get slaughtered by a guy with a bit more experience and more power. Why don't I just hold one show because that is all he showed up to. Like I said earlier. I held 20 shows last year and I had 63 AMATEURS show up and 50 of them only entered once. So 50 people had their system checked once. What is the point of that. I thought this was a competition. The probably got theirs butt kicked and thought there was no point of them to come back. I am now going to give that customer the opportunity to win a trophy even if he hits 139db. Atleast now he will be up against someone in his class and not a 2000 watt class. How about we race my stock civic against your stock 350Z. I bet I will be happy to come out every week to lose to you.
NO I DIDN'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!

Enough said.

so u have amatures go against amatures and give the nature of any sport some amatures lost.....so they got discouraged b/c they got beat by other amatures. this is how it goes, someone has to lose and once they lose (doesnt mater to who) chances are they wont come back. Im not sure what u are trying to do here? a sport with no loosers?? another short comming i see with your logic is this: say u have 10 amatures competing and one of them decides to get serious and buys one of your 2000 watt amps b/c he wants to win.....mean while 9 others run their 600 watt kenwoods. So what do u do now with that AMATURE who spend the extra $1000 on that amp? goin by your logic he's no longer amature b/c he has a big amp and he would win over the other 9 guys, thus discouraging them and making them not comeback....SO... do u put him in the class with the big guys where he will get smoked anyways and get discouraged himself and feel dumb for spending all the money on the amp and never come back?? Like what would u do??

1. Let the guy that spend $1000 smoke all the other 9 guys most of whome will not come back

OR

2. Punish the guy for spending all that money on your product and put him in a higher class where he will get smoked and get discouraged and never comeback himself??

which one is it gonna be??


also i dont know where u getting this stock civic vs. stock z350 analogy from?? if u read some of the earlier posts u would see that some guys can hit much higher numbers than others meanwhile usings same number of subs and same amount of watts.....

let me ask u this then, say Peter from MTA hits 150 on the sensor with 1 12 and one 2000 watt amp and then u have one of your guys doin a 142 with similar gear would u put them in the same class? why or why not??

also what if Peter puts his stereo in his girlfriend's car (and still hits about the same) is SHE an amature or is she a pro???? she has never competed before.

[ February 15, 2005, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: Prolifik ]

There will be progress in the small class for sure and that is fine. What I will not allow is someone like yourself to come out and smoke them. Is that fair? I understand it is not perfect but I will see what I can do to keep the AMATEURS happy. You are not an AMATEUR so you will not be too worried about the entry level class anyways.

[ February 15, 2005, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: NTOXKTD ]

so u would let the amature with the freshly bought $1000 2000 watt amp walk all over the other 9 amatures??

Im only asking out of interest

also another delema for you. say some amature competitor makes friends with someone not so amature who has a similar vehicle, and say that not so amature person gives the amature guy his/her box......what do u do here? so if this amature guy wins a show with this box who would really win if this happens? the amature guy or the non amature guy?

example, i know yuli and few other loud guys with hatch cars. and b/c i have an suv myself i know yuli's box would work well for me too. so say if i take his loudest box and put it into my Explorer and basically win b/c of it.....who really won? me or the owner of the box?

[ February 15, 2005, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: Prolifik ]

I guess I would have to see who the amateur is. I will bump anyone up if I chose. If you don't want to play don't come out.

if u have never seen me compete at any shows before am I an amature? or how about my borrowed box?

i feel there needs to be a solid definition of what an 'amature' is. is it derived based on my experiance? ppl i get help from? or the gear i use?

[ February 15, 2005, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Prolifik ]

at the phantom shows dan always put pro's in a different class, we weren't going against amature guys we were all in our own class

as far as i remember no ammature got a trophy

my trophy says "PRO SPL ALL 1-2 WOOFER - 2nd PLACE"
there have been numerous times that i have gone against amatures and i've actually given them my trophy after the show so that they wouldn't get discouraged about not winning anything

[ February 15, 2005, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: CRAZY LOUD ??? ]

I'm not sure about Yuli, but Mark and Martini were in pro. I was in amature, and had I known that I would have been much louder then the rookies I would have asked to be bumped up.

See some people see the point. I want the amateurs to have fun. If you want to compete on a higher level please go to DB DRAG or Iasca and leave my league to the AMATEURS.

so u wont have a class break down then? its funny b/c in your second post u said u will.

I will have a class break down. Now quit being so picky.

It's guy's like ntoxktd that try to inprove on the sport of car audio. So thank you ntoxktd for trying to help out guy's like myself who have never been tested or been to a show wanna try and see what our car can do. And for guy's like prolifik who just wanna distroy guy's like me. i say "forshame" it seems all you want is trophy's and money leave the little guy alone.

thanks ntoxktd i'll do my best to be at one of your show's it a bit of a drive but ill be there.

i want money? i destroy guys like u? i have never formally competed in my life, get a clue.

bring it on