my first year competing in sq
 

this was going to be the year l would do the crime.
finished my install in april and went to 9 shows and joned iasca
my set up is 3 years old and at the end of the season l am going to implement what l learned.
dont be intimidated, l used coaxials all the way around and 4 subs
my cd and processor are optically connected.
l built and tuned the system myself with the help of a few test cds and db meter and hooked up with a board member to use a rta.
overall it was a good experience and still have the bug for next year.

if your me next year heres the goods
-tweeters must be in the a pillar
-your 5-6 inch must make solid kick bass
- subs gotta do the low, 30-20hz
-when the judge is done ask where your lacking . this is where the focus on improving will make the biggest gains
-this winter take pics of what cant be seen during install. a picture book makes a rookie feel like a pro
-when you go to a show you have to kill 4-5 hours. have a cd you know and listen to other cars. at least you will learn why your set up has kinks to work out.
hope to see new poeple next year. good luck

dont tell friends and family you got a wicked system. tell the world and get out there and compete
l never once heard anyone laughing at someones system. even the big dollar set ups got beat. lm pretty sure you could get an awesome system through the classifieds at half the price and the board can help trouble shoot.
thx dave

I agree with all but your first point. A-pillar tweeters are currently in favour, but are not the only option.

^^^^Agreed. Do some fooling around with speaker placement. You might just find that "perfect" location.


Oh, stay out of my class....LOL!

super noob question......how is SQ judged?

As usual.. Dukk and I agree

Tweets can go on the dash in the door, on the floor, most anywhere (I was going to make this rhyme like 'Sam I am'). The top IASCA/MECA/ USACi put their tweets in the usual and the unusual locations... some even in coax arrangements.

Using the IASCA test cd, different tracks are played and the judges are to listen for certain things...some of the judging criteria include "width", "height" and "depth"..Other things include 0 bit noise test and so forth...the test can take anywhere from 10-20 minutes...then you have to do spl test and must hit above certain number or you lose points..You will also get judged on complete system installation

every show l went to the players had a pillar tweets.
dash= narrow
door= lack of hieght
floor=more of above
all the above will give little depth

a pillar gets you width, hieght, and depth. its the easiest way to get started and be successful. lf you want to burn the off season with a different location for the tweets, best off luck.

for a first year guy this is my observation in the field.
my tweets were in the dash, the biggest hurdle was width.
lf you plan to come out next year and disregard this ,then enjoy your trouble.
if popularity is a contest then A pillar placement wins

Well while your 'First Year' observations are certainly important, John up there has been a competitor and all around SQ resource for forever. I've been around the block a few times myself and like to think I know what I am talking about ;)

Currently I have Apillar tweets myself. I have been equally successful with Kickpanel placed tweeters though and have found that width is way easier in a KP tweet than Apillar tweets in many cars. Height is the biggest advantage of Apillar locations and may be an issue if you don't know how to aim a KP but near field intensity issues are prevalent for Apillars so it's a pick-your-poison sort of game. Generally Apillar drivers need some sort of time alignment to balance things as the pathlengths are way different.

To universally rule one location superior though is near sighted at best.

As for your popularity contest - the Toyota Camry is the most popular car in Canada. Is it the best, or obvious choice?

Here is a link to USACi's Advanced scoresheet: http://www.soundoff.org/supportfiles...05ADVANCED.pdf

That's top shelf though - go here to see the rest and maybe read the rules that go along with it: United States Autosound Competition International Rules

Its like figure skating........your fate is in the hands of a judge!

johns got a pillar tweets. rookie of the year.
all lm saying is if your wondering where to begin and your new to the sq game
then start in the pillar. lm a rookie and so is this advice. if your an expert then your opinions can spin a newbee in a unfocused time wasting direction.

want to get out of the gate quickly with succes, A pillar

l new this would be a stickler with some. l wish l could go to the finals and do the numbers on who has what. l strongly disagree that its a trend

As someone who has been to the last 5 world finals. Primary tweets in the kicks are still the dominiate location.. I say primary because some use a 2nd set padded down in the a-pillers..

primary A-piller tweets are not a sure method way of getting a good/decent sq score.. Nor is kick panels. Everything is a trade off.. Having great height will only insure good scores with a inexperenced judge, or if its single seat. Theres a lot of a-piller cars that end up giving up points in other areas.

I have had both a-piller and kick only setups.. The kick panel setup IMO scored better in the technical/imaging areas then the a-piller one over all.. The a-piller setup was only better in height, by 1-2 points.. In the bigger picture of the score card 1-2 points is little to gain if you loose points in other areas (If you have a experenced judge).

The reason for its popularity? Because a hand full of very skilled installers have done it and done really well. Its no different then brand popularity.. If all the best competitors use brand X and win, brand X will become the new "Best".

And yes even the "best" competitors are not perfect. One of the guys that helped make a-piller tweets popular, buwalda.. His altima was about 2"s inside of the a-pillers.

Ok...

IMO to do primary a-piller correctly you need to cross them over above 5.5khz and possibly @ 6khz.. You need a mid to play up that high. Very few do, well. Alot are 4"s, and you oftan need seperate midbass to play midbass.. Now you have midbass speakers to locate to.. Now you need a 4way xover (AND one that does 6khz, not many do), and 6 channels of amplification. Not to mention you need to locate the midbass and drivers so they dont hurt the passanger side, if you plan on doing 2 seat judging.

WOW Things have gotten costly for the 1st timer "just out of the gate"..
Comparied to a kick panel setup of 6/tweet w/passive and 2 channel amp.. Much cheaper and easier to tune.

KISS!

Oh and dont tell me about t-alignment.. Tell that to the usac competitors who tried to crossover to iasca.. They got creamed, even with there F1!

JOHN????

Hay that's me!:)

I did use "A" pillar tweets in my rookie year. But one advantage I had was a woofer that could play 5-6Khz and a wife that let me sit in my driveway for hours aiming my kicks. Which helped out a lot. Now this dosent mean much, but 2 of the 3 best sounding cars I've ever heard only use kick panel mounted speakers.

I understand what Surroundsound is saying though, in this area most decent sounding cars seem to use the "A" pillar location for the tweeters. So I can see where he's getting his opinion from.

thx for the insight. lm guessing kickpanel stuff should point toward the occupant as appossed to firing at each other.
anyway lm going pillar next year with a high ranging 4" in the dash as was suggested, with a high x over and a 6 in the door. so ya l will go with a 4 way . the 701 does the job.

despite what l say the car layout is what really dictates the situation. the beauty of sq is you will never see the same install twice

You need to do some serious reading about path lengths, and the frequences that are effected by it.

looking forward to a second year challenge , a 4way will do it.

will time delay not compensate for path length. was told sound becomes directional at around 250 hz. lm guessing the higher the freq the faster it travels

A few years ago kicks were in vogue and today a-pillar tweets are vogue. I think certain makes/ models benefit from a-pillar tweets and some cars CAN NOT have mid-bass kicks. SQ competition is not an absolute (nothing works for everyone). I love when you do something unique and vaguely successful and the 'me-too' crowd tries to copy with mediocre results. Seriously do what works in YOUR car.

MECA rules on how SQ is judged http://www.mecacaraudio.com/2006SQLRules/index.php

excessive use of time alignment like your talking about only helps for one seat.

from 100-500 its all path lengths, direction doesnt generally matter. 500 up to about 4khz it changes from path lengths to speaker angle/direction IE intensity differences.

Thats the quick and easy answer.. Its more complex then that.

oh and sound travels at the same speed, doesnt matter what freq it is.

Im my case, my pathlengths are more even in my dash then in my kicks. So I have lots of exparementing to do.

in my first year . l saw a few front ends with a sub maybe in the dash . also judges mentioned getting as much bass from the front is a positive. how low should you go. thinking of a bookshelf than can do 35hz.

my dash can hold a 5" how low to crossover ?

Each woofer will be different. Some will play low, others not. You have some pretty serious midbass woofers, so you shouldn't have any problems with bass localization. Provided you dont have any resonances in the truck.

lm hoping they will outperform what l heard in other cars this summer.
my 6.5 jl coax just didnt have that kickbass. l sure felt a difference and a scoring loss for lack of that bass drum

My midbass woofers are in a proper cabinet. If your woofers work ok IB then just stick them in your doors. But if they need a proper cabinet, give it to them.