Now here is the real question. In all the other threads, everyone always talks about which set of components they like the best, or best woofer, best place to install, locations, processors, etc.

In my opinion, I think the amplifier has a great deal to do with the quality of sound. You can have the best components in the world, but if you have a bad amp, the components will show it.

Now which amp should be reigned supreme, as to the purity and clarity of sound it is capable of producing?

Call Richard Clark, he's at www.carsound.com

But seriously though, so many factors go into a decision like this one...
Question #1. How much money do you have son?

After you sort out the financials take a look at what you'd like to see the amp accomplish, and then zero in on a few good choices. In all reality, there are many great amps out there today for a very reasonable price.

You start to get into the pricier stuff when the amp still behaves with good manners even when driven hard, but most amps should do fine as long as you buy an amp with about 25% or more power than you really need and then always keep the amp operating in it's comfort zone... another words if an amp can put out the volume you like without stressing you could choose just about any reputable amp today and do well.

Now if you want to have the Crema de la Crem how about a Tru C7 or the awesome Audison Thesis www.audison.com

[ May 28, 2005, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: islandphile ]

I'm an amplifier guy, but you ask a question that is virtually impossible to answer.

I don't know if you are just looking for a discussion thread on amps, or are serious about buying a new amp. But either way, I think you have to identify a bit more clearly what you are after. (As Islandphile has already addressed)

There are lots of really well made amplifiers out there.

Adam

Actually the amps I had narrowed it down to were, Audison, McIntosh, and Butler tube.

wow, you're ignoring Tru technology? and DLS? how about ARC? if you're going to go with a tybe hybrid amp, audition the TRU C7.4-T and listen to the DLS A3 and A7, I'm running an A7 in my car right now, and it's amazing, already sold a customer on DLS amps within 2 minutes of it being hooked up. (literally, he was waiting to hear it)

kicker xs sereies, alpne mrvf900, avi abh1002 and now abh1004, can all be added to that list

Ok, now we are getting somewhere kinslayr.

I currently own a pair of Audison VRx amps and I've listened to the top level Macs.

I'll be upgrading the Audison VRx amps to TRU Technology Copper series or DLS Utimate series amps.

The Butler tube is a good product, but you said you were looking for the best...so for that I'm going to recomend the TRU Technology C-7AT. Also very well respected as an ultimate tube amp is the Milbert BAM 230.

Adam

They guy has settled on 3 choices. There is nothing wrong with his three choices. In fact they are excellent choices. I understand that others feel there are comparable choices but he has settled on these three.

My opinion on your three is that you pay too much for the name with Mac, the Butlers are nice but not everyone digs the tube sound, and that he Audison would probably be the best bet in terms of performance for dollar for size.

All 3 are quality, solid amps. You won't be disappointed with either. It's 'my' opinion that a solid-state, transistor amp shouldn't sound different than another. A tube, yes. If you are able to audition the amps, that's best. If you can do side-by-side comparisons with the rest of the system being equal (like say on a demo board), that's even better. But if you can't, I suggest basing your decision on your budget, features and power you can get to fit that budget and what you would like to see sitting in your car.

I don't believe Butler Tube or Mac offer different levels of their amps to fit different budgets but Audison doex.

Decisions decisions decisions.....hmm well...I will look into every model listed above, there was a couple I hadn't seen before so I will continue my search for purity. Hopefull soon I can decide on one and let you know the results.

I have owned and used on front stages:

Xtant 302a
MTX 2300
A/D/S/ P2110, P640, P240, Bunch of older ones
Soundstream Picasso Class A
PPI PC225 PC275
H/K CA30
RF Punch 40 trans-ana Punch 200 dsm
various other crap

My Genesis Dual Mono slays all of them, I think the DLS amps are just rebadged Genesis, might be worth looking into.

If you want something (supposedly) excellent, and definitely uncommon, look as Phass. I'd love to hear one, or one of the new Luxman's.

[ May 28, 2005, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Newb ]

There are many differences between the Genesis and DLS.

My Audison VRx2.400 and VRx1.500 are in the For Sale section here.

The system should be selected so that each piece of equipment in the chain compliments the next. They must build on strengths rather than brand name (I bought Soundstream back in the day because it was available locally and it was cheeper and about as reliable as the Naks and ADS stuff (OK ADS was much more reliable)).

I have owned Mac, Macs have wonderfull midbass power and detail you have to take advantage of that with the speakers.
I have auditioned Butlers and they are nice but they bring different things to the table.
(I bought the Mac over the Tube driver Blue)

[ May 29, 2005, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: JohnVroom ]

this is a few amps that i tried in the last 1.5 year:
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/634904/3
i also listed to alot other high end amps, and after comparing all of them at the end right now im using c7 for my midrange and tweeter, ROCKFORD T15004 FOR MY MIDBASS AND SUB.

If our regular amplifiers don't meet or exceed your needs we have one to compete with the ones defro mentioned ;)

http://fordtruckworld.tenmagazines.c...con/567180.jpg
http://fordtruckworld.tenmagazines.c...con/567181.jpg
http://fordtruckworld.tenmagazines.c...con/567182.jpg http://fordtruckworld.tenmagazines.c...con/567183.jpg http://fordtruckworld.tenmagazines.c...con/567184.jpg

[ May 30, 2005, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Icon ]

Know of any threads that discuss them? I've never seen a DLS in person, however from pics/specs they seem very similar.

[ May 29, 2005, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Newb ]

Scott Buwalda is quite knowledgable with those amps. I would get in touch with him if I wanted more info.

Decided to not be lazy and do a bit of reading. Didn't realize that the DLS are just cosmetic knockoffs of Genesis, and really just Chinese made assembly-line stuff.

Also got to discover the Genesis Dual Mono Extreme. /drool

Speakers are always the weakest link. Listen to good speakers with a bad amp - not the best sound but surprisingly not as bad as you would think. Now listen the best amp through a bad set of speakers... it will sound horrible.

As the price of manufacturing and electronic components continues to decrease, is costs less and less to build a good sounding amp. Much of what you're paying for in the higher end amps is reserve power and aesthetics.

newb: DLS are made in sweden, I have one in my car now, and it clearly says "made in sweden" please, get a clue. there are many amps that look similar to them.

If you want to choose which amp you want, do this (works every time). First, memorize the power output and cost for each amp; very important. Also, try to get as good a picture mentally of how the amps look AND the place they will be going (ie: your car). Get into a listening room ( any quiet place will do ) and then imagine what each amp will look like in your car.

After you have decided, then take a look at whether you are willing to expend $xxxx.xx for that amp for the xx x whatever rms watts they put out.

Mainly (I know I will get flamed but some people need to hear this over and over) if you buy a solid state amp of decent quality, they're all the same. As for the tubes, I have no faith in their reliability in car and their minute differences aren't realizeable in a moving vehicle (unless, of course, you hit some traintracks and it shakes the tube).

Noting that, I would go for the Macs because they look old and ugly. But, something about them says quality and I like that.

^They do look old, but ugly...maybe, they certainly force an opinion on their appearance unlike most. I think they are elegant but I also cant see them in most of the tricked out rides.

Amps do not measure the same (freq response), nor do they have consistent input or output impedance, so there really is no reason to think they sound the same. Having said that I also would look at the price per watt relation in the purchase decision.

How much of the SQ is perceived and not actual? Ettore would say “all of it” and others will agree and disagree. The darn thing had better have some real benefits to justify a $2,000 price tag.

http://www.animalsentience.com/image...ak_no_evil.jpg

:D

From what I've seen on Carsound, the original DLS amps were made for DLS by Genesis. That arrangement did not last, and the current ones are made in SE Asia. Also at least some of the DLS drivers are made in SE Asia.

Elegant is the perfect word ... that's a perfect descriptor.

There is your first mistake, dont use CARSOUND as an authority they have a lot of opinions posing as fact over there


Why did Dukk post a picture of himself... smelling his fingers? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ June 02, 2005, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: JohnVroom ]

I just figured I would offer as much intelligent input as everyone else [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

From what I've seen on Carsound, the original DLS amps were made for DLS by Genesis. That arrangement did not last, and the current ones are made in SE Asia. Also at least some of the DLS drivers are made in SE Asia. </font>[/QUOTE]Car Sound or no Car Sound, this information is absolutely correct.