PEI330Ci

After buying the best midbass and midrange combination that I've ever heard, I'm left very dissapointed in the tweeter department.(Focal Utopia 165W3 kit)

The TN51 tweeter that comes with the kit is capable, but below the dynamic standard of the midrange and midbass drivers. For those happy with the TN51, good for you. It's a fine tweeter, but there is much better out there.

After applying massive amounts of Eq to combat (it really is a war) harshness at higher spl levels, I chucked the TN51s out of the car. The next tweeter that I put in sounded amazing compared to the TN51s. But, in the SQ world, there is better still. To sum the characteristic of the TN51, it plays a little hot out of the box. This isnt' too much of problem, if you don't turn the volume up too high. Once you cross the 100 db threshold, things get strained. This tweeter simply hasn't got the motor structure or suspension to handle transients above 100db. The radiating surface is literally fastened to a firm foam type material. This affects linear movement of the radiating surface severly, it just won't move beyond the foam's limits. The result is distortion.

I listened to just the TN51 with the supplied passive X.O.(highpass filter at 3Khz @24db/octave) Using an Alpine 7996 head unit, and an Audison VRx2.400, I listened to a few reference disks. I use mostly Chesky, and Reference Recordings disks for evaluation. In particular, Sara K. from Chesky. This tweeter just doesn't like to play loud, and at low levels it's missing a lot of detail. For those that doubt the install, the tweeters weren't even in my car at times. I held one in my hand at one point while standing outside the car to eliminate nearfield reflections.

I'm not trashing Focal tweeters. For most people they will do a fine job. Heck, Wilson Audio uses a modified versions of Focal tweeters in some of their models (Wilson Audio makes the most expensive and arguably the best model of speaker in the world) So they can't be all that bad. All I'm saying is that in my application, they don't cut it.

I've had 2 other sets of tweeters in the car since the TN51s. I'm still looking for a tweeter that responds well to my car's accoustical environment. On my list of tweeters to try are a set of DLS UR-1s and Morel MDT33s(monsters). While the UR-1s will have no problem being posstioned in my appliction, the Morels will probably only be practical in my kick area. (unless I fancy cutting holes in my BMW's dash)

I have previous experience with the Morel MDT33.
They are extremely versatile and respond well off axis. Power handling is enormous, I have yet to hear one flinch. At CES in 1995, I had a high end home speaker running a set off of a pair of 1000 watt mono blocks. They sounded incredible.

Also on my list of canadates, is an Accuton tweeter. While I'd love to use their pure diamond diaphram tweeters, they are way out of my price range at 2800 US each. Here is the tweeter I'm thinking of.

http://www.accuton.com/e_index_iexplorer1152.html

How do you like that waterfall plot Dave?

The only downside to the Accuton is off axis response.

I'll post more as my tweeter exploits continue.

Adam

TomK

Some people think that the DLS sound is a little too laid back for their tastes. Then again, it's a personal preference and everyone hears things differently. I'm going to be very interested to hear what you think about the UR1's. Give them some break in time as well. AND, I want you to be straight up and post what you think. If they suck, say so. Feedback on these things is more important to me then sugar coating and being all politically correct.

I'm runnning a set in my A-pillars crossed from 6.3K and up. Mind you I have a mid dome also on the dash right beside them, so I can cross them over nice and high. Mark ran a set of UR1's full range off I think 50 watts per side and cranked almost full volume. The UR1's held up fine which surprised me. Not that they sound good through the whole frequency spectrum, but was an interesting little experiment.

PEI330Ci

Yes Tom, I'll let it rip. On the upside, I like laid back tweeters.

Dave you are right, in the scheme of things, most car audio tweeters are "entry level". I would love to audition a set of TLRs, but I can't afford them. Kind of pricey. All I'm going to say is, yes Berrylium is coming. (but you didn't hear it from me) Dave, I'm sure you have the same sources I do.

Kimon (Orca Designs imports Focal, he runs it)has been consulting with France for toned down tweeters for the american market quietly for a couple of years. If you have noticed the amazing amount of tweeter antenuation available in newer passive X.O. kits, I'd say his influence is paying off.

I have no illusions that the DLS tweeters or Morel tweeters are going to solve all of my problems. I had the Focals in the car for a while before I decided to move on. I take my time and work on tuning. If, after trying everything I can think of, things don't work, I move on.

I still haven't run any RTA sweeps on the Utopia midrange driver, so I don't know how high I can run it X.O. wise. Scott Buwalda is running his DLS-UR1s at 6.3Khz up, and he's got pretty good sound from what I hear. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Getting my 4" mids to go that high might be a challenge. A partial step would be to run a second tweeter from 2khz up to 6.3khz. This complicates things though, creating a 4 way front stage. Provided I mounted the midrange and lower tweeter really close together in the kick area, it could work. But, running more always makes things more complicated, and running a tweeter low (2khz) would take a special tweeter. (like the MDT33)

KISS just got thrown out the window guys.

I'm working on getting some image hosting up so I can post response curves to share what I'm doing. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I'd like share what I do know. So far, CCA has led me in a number of really good directions with ideas. Some will be used in the car. I'd like to contribute back to the community that's making this hobby so fun for me.

Oh, if anybody has a set of TLRs, let me know.

Adam

SUX 2BU

iTrader: (1)

If you have a taste for 'high end', pricey drivers (and it appears you do), then try out the Morel Supremo. I've heard very glowing reviews of it.

Chadxton

iTrader: (1)

I thought only TAD-Pioneer made a beryllium composite tweeter. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] Is this something recent from Focal?

Chadxton

iTrader: (1)

I myself am going to be using a set of Seas 538 HT tweeters. With an Fs (Fo) of 600Hz, and price of $40US a pair, and acclaimed equivalent performance with less airy-ness than the Focal TC 120 TD5 tweeter, I couldn't go wrong. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I plan on crossing it over at 2.4kHz.

Wade

I used to have a set of Morel mdt44's - very nice tweeter, but I think they're as big or bigger than the 33's - not the easiest thing to find room for. Ultra smooth and played very low too.

Scott's car sounded really nice with the DLS, but in the end just about anything can me made to sound good with the right install and tuning.

Brandon

iTrader: (1)

Umm sorry Dave, I hate to break it to you but the TN51 is from the Utopia set, it's not entry level. Unless you wanna explain what you mean by entry level.

The TN-45 would be entry level.

Oh and the TLR and TN51 use the same motor. Yes they do sound very good...those Beriliums are out of the new line of Grande Utopia's called Grande Utopia Be. There about $3-4K canadian.

[ January 27, 2004, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: slingshot2 ]

Brandon

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, that's $3-4K for just the tweeters, the Grande Utopia Be are easily upwards of $100K US