hey guys,

i want to do a big three on my car. now my question is when you run the wire from your alt to your battery, is it necessary to fuse it? is it possible to run the wire from alt-fusebox-than to the battery? also what ga wire should you use? is 4ga alright?

Best to get a shop to do it.

Check the 'big three' upgrade tutorial on sounddomain.com. That should help.

yeah i did, but its kinda unclear what to do with the alt-battery. he has going to the main fuse box but he mentioned a separate fused link but what size fuse should i use? i think he mentioned 300 amp. is that to much? i have a 98 malibu and i think the alt is around 70-100.

any suggestions? thanks in advance.

get a service manual CT sells Haynes!!

Where does the factory wire go? Straight from alt to batt? Duplicate that.

Does the factory charge lead have a fuse in it? Duplicate that.

Do you have a stock alternator? If so, why are you upgrading the charge lead?

its hard to see because its a 2.4 quad and ****s buried in that motor but it looks like the main wire goes from alt-fusebox-battery. yes the alt is stock but i was told that it is best to do a big three when running mono amps.

Did they offer a reason why?

Did they offer a reason why? </font>[/QUOTE]because they require alot of steady voltage and power? or is this a myth and a waste of money. i was also told to use 0ga or don`t bother.

On the site I believe he mentions that he ran it to/through the fusebox and admits that he probably didn't get as good a result as he could have. I would go with 0 awg, especially for the grounds. As for fusing (on the bettery end of the alt/batt lead), the MAXIMUM recommended fuse suze for 0 awg is 300A, so I'd go with that (or less ofcourse). As for alternator issues, do the big three first. It's cheaper than an alternator upgrade. Besides, you'll know after you upgrade TB3 if you require a significant electrical upgrade. In the meantime, enjoy!

thanks for all the advice guys but one more question. if i use 0ga wirer, can i use welding wire for example rather than that expensive street wire? 0-ga is really expensive.

[ August 16, 2005, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: mayhem ]

Is having a 0ga charge lead going to make your stock alternator make more current?

no, but larger ga wire allows current to flow (better), less resistance, less heat. i see what your saying but i`m only passing on info that was given to me. big three i`m told is the first upgrade done before you go with a high output alternator right?

^x2

no, but larger ga wire allows current to flow (better), less resistance, less heat. i see what your saying but i`m only passing on info that was given to me. big three i`m told is the first upgrade done before you go with a high output alternator right? </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, 0 is fine. Doing cabling before an alt upgrade is a good idea for sure, it's relatively cheap and fun to do. With proper cabling here & there, you can get your stock alternator to last you longer than you thought.

I did. I'm running 2Kw in my van & have so for over a year, regularly make the alternator send over 50 amps to the rear, and again, have so for over a year, in a high-mileage work van, stock 105 amp alternator w/ a small Mustang/Cougar pulley to speed it up for better output at idle speeds. Not original, but is still just a stock 105 CS130D alternator. If it dies before I get rid of this van, I'll probably bolt in a 140 amp, since it doesn't cost me much more.

I ran 2ga. welding cable from the alt to battery, to solenoid switch, to rear battery, to junction block. Also ran new grounds, front bat to frame, and front bat to alternator bracket, continues to tranny bolt, continues to frame at rear, continues to rear battery & junction block. 2 is enough, I'll probably be replacing this vehicle in the next year (it has 400,000km's) or so, and will wire the new one with 2/0ga, so I can get more/bigger amps that require a custom alternator.

So ya, if ya like tinkering yourself, start adding cable here & there. You don't have to do it all at once, if you do it a piece at a time you can observe the benefits that each piece makes. It's truley amazing how just one cable in the "right place" can make such a difference.

Good luck, have fun!

Instead of asking questions why don't you answer to which you are obviously aware of.

Or how about I ask you.

Is having a 0ga charge lead going to make you stock alternator make LESS current?

Smarty pants.... :D

X

Instead of asking questions why don't you answer to which you are obviously aware of.

Or how about I ask you.

Is having a 0ga charge lead going to make you stock alternator make LESS current?

good one ;) but he makes a point.
Smarty pants.... :D

X </font>[/QUOTE]

Well, see now, I know the answer but was hoping that somebody would turn on their noodle and maybe think about what they are doing rather than merely being a sheeple and following the herd.

Not to insult you Mayhem but you have commented a couple of times that you are just 'doing what you have read'. That very practice has lead a lot of people into doing dumb things like, say, stiffening caps for regulated amps, centre channels for SQ, and using sealed enclosures.

Just trying to get people to burn the dust out every now and then [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]


If you ask me - upgrading the charge wire is the LAST thing to do, along with the engine to chassis ground. They have minimal effect with a stock alternator. BUT if you have the time and money, it won't (usually) hurt anything.

there is always a difference of opinion on these forums.

Nuh-uh. I've added cabling to many cars and had instant drastic improvements. Cars' stock wiring just isn't designed for the kind of power stereo needs.

Mind you, these were cars that were here because someone installed big stereo equipment and then the owner was running into voltage problems at red lights and whatnot.

However, my own van, not using SPL meters but just listening to the SQ of it all and measuring voltage fluctuations, adding decent cabling made a huge difference. You could instantly hear the cleaner, tighter bass out of my sub. It had a drastic effect on the alternator's ability to keep the voltage smooth. This was before I got into the big Orion gear, when my total output wattage was still under 600w, and my sub wattage was only 300. AVR the system back then, and it was only drawing 20 amps, 25 when cranked "full tilt". Now, it draws 80-100 amps for music.

If you're gonna start adding equipment to any vehicle, adding a few cables first is cheap, easy, and will save you troubles "down the road".

x2

grizz did you do the grounds at the same time as the charge lead ? or seperatly. the only way to be sure that it is teh charge lead would be to do it seperatly . imo i cant see a alrger wire from alt to batt helping anything. your amps pull there power from teh battery not the alternator. and if your amps are pulling so much as to drain teh battery to teh potin wher eit needs to "wait" for teh alt to recarge it you need a bigger alt.

x2?? LOL! What the heck is THAT? You take someone like Grizz's thorough experience and try to tack your noobness to it? Survey Says: um, no.


Grizz - I'm not going to dispute you - I believe what you say happened. I too have performed this operation a few times and on my own cars also and noticed zippo difference in sound or performance of the charging system.

I can see potential improvement if the factory cabling has been compromized by age and corrosion but have yet to see changing a decent factory 6ga charge lead for a fresh 0ga do anything. Just my two bits.

Nope, I did them a piece at a time, then drove for a day or two to see if I could hear the difference.

I did some grounds first, front bat to frame. This improved sound a lot, and reduced voltage drop at idle speed a bit. Then, I did a 2ga cable from alt to front bat, and it helped some more, I won't say a lot, but I won't say a little either... just... some more. Then, I added a cable from that ground on my frame, bounced it off the alt mount, then bounced it off a tranny bolt, then to a bolt at the rear frame, where the ground from my rear battery also meets (I had already added a 2ga positive cable from the front battery to the rear battery, where all my amps are hooked up, years ago). Woah... HUGE difference with that one. Now, my voltage barely drops at all at idle, and if I'm cruising with a bass demo cd going full tilt, I can't "bag" my alternator anymore, like I used to. I used to be able to bag it right down to battery voltage, about 12.5v. Now, I can't get it below 13.5v.

Nope. Your amps, and ALL your car's electrical, pull their power from the alternator. 14.5v. When and if you actually bag an alternator (pull more amps from your car's charging system {alt & battery} than the alternator is capable of producing), it'll drop to battery voltage, 12.6ish. Your alternator is now humping out everything it's capable of (and gonna burn itself up if you keep it up for more than a minute or two), so if you keep drawing power, the voltage goes down to the battery's voltage. Keep pulling more power, and THEN you're on the battery. Better have a damn good battery or your amps won't have enough voltage anymore and could start clipping. A battery's job is to supply power when the alternator isn't turning. Once the engine's running, a battery quickly gets recharged (1 to 5 minutes) and becomes "invisible", until you draw to much power from the alternator.

This is why the "big boys" of SPL competitions don't just have a lotta batteries, they've got big badass alternators too. Theoretically, if you have a 500 amp alternator, you could hook it up to just one garden tractor battery and drive a 2500D at 1 ohm (~300 amps at full tilt) all day without harming anything. Do the same to a system with just an 80 amp alternator and a whole bunch of CAT batteries, and your 2500D will get hot (amps get hot when the volts go down), not sound as good and/or as loud, and could start clipping, harming your sub(s).

In my truck, I was having issues with low charge voltage when the truck was running. I couldn't run the low-beam headlights and my wipers along with just having the stereo on without it dipping below 13v. I was about ready to buy a new alt. when I figured I'd spend an afternoon cleaning up all the factory grounding spots. What I did was take off each bolt or however it was attached to the truck and scraped away paint to expose bare metal under the washer/bolt/whatever. Buttoned it all back up and I did replace the battery to alt. wire with a 4 ga. from the 12 ga. it was. Not that I really thought it needed a 4 ga. since the current draw from my system won't even pop a 60 amp fuse but the wire had been spliced a couple times so I figured why not. The result is a no-load voltage of about 13.8, up from 13.1 and with load I never go below 13v.

Step 1: clean up the grounds.

^ Yep. Start with the basics.

My point is that blindly adding three pieces of wire may not accomplish much but if a person thinks about it and is smart with what they are doing then they may accomplish much more.

x2.

well anyway i went to princess auto and got some welding wire and a 300 amp fuse and holder so i`ll see what happens.