Audiothunder officially only an SPL show this year :(
500 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 610
The whole concept with a new judge's rating system is to feed the veteran and new judges with positive reinforcement and help them to grow and learn more about judging. It will also help eliminate the weaker judges who are judging for their own personal agenda, whatever that may be.
My main reasoning in setting up these kinds of systems (not just the judge's rating system) is to rebuild the strength and credibility of IASCA and it's affiliate countries. This is one of the reasons I post these threads, so we can have discussions to see what all of you, IASCA's members, and non members who may be interested in joining, feel would work and what wouldn't. Although it is impossible to please everyone, if IASCA can make changes to appeal to the majority of car audio competitors, it will gain that strength and credibility and continue to grow.
A judges rating system, if implemented, in my opinion would not discourage members and competitors from becoming judges, but instead encourage them by raising the standard of judging and the status of the title "IASCA Certified Judge". It would make becoming an IASCA certified judge something to strive towards, instead of "going through the motions" and getting your certification. This can only be a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, this "IASCA Certified Judge" has to get off the net because his wife wants him to print some "Christmas pictures" [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/boring.gif[/img] , so I gotta go...
HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE !!!! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
My main reasoning in setting up these kinds of systems (not just the judge's rating system) is to rebuild the strength and credibility of IASCA and it's affiliate countries. This is one of the reasons I post these threads, so we can have discussions to see what all of you, IASCA's members, and non members who may be interested in joining, feel would work and what wouldn't. Although it is impossible to please everyone, if IASCA can make changes to appeal to the majority of car audio competitors, it will gain that strength and credibility and continue to grow.
A judges rating system, if implemented, in my opinion would not discourage members and competitors from becoming judges, but instead encourage them by raising the standard of judging and the status of the title "IASCA Certified Judge". It would make becoming an IASCA certified judge something to strive towards, instead of "going through the motions" and getting your certification. This can only be a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, this "IASCA Certified Judge" has to get off the net because his wife wants him to print some "Christmas pictures" [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/boring.gif[/img] , so I gotta go...
HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE !!!! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
Guest
Posts: n/a
A conspiracy?? I think it's more of a way to give at least some recognition to the people that have all-but-donated weekend after weekend, year-after-year to this sport.
What bothers me about the whole thing is NOT new judges that are brought on board, no matter what their background and experience is. It's new judges that 'think' they are the '****', then go on to do a crappy job, and cost someone who has spent thousands and thousands of dollars on their system the recognition they deserve. I've seen some of the new breed of local judges score cars not knowing the functional definitions of stage height, stage depth, soundstage, images, ambiance and so on. How could I be proud to be involved with that?
I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours judging peoples cars and ten times that evaluating equipment. I do it honestly, enthusiastically and I think I did a good job. I never once had a surprise on the stage come trophy time in any class I judged, and I never had any complaints from the vehicle owners (that weren't resolved after a simple explanation of how the scoring was done). I may not have appeared to take judging anally seriously (making jokes, looking at girls walking by, swapping judge positions, etc.), but the scores on the sheet always accurately represented how well the car performed based on the criteria laid out by IASCA (wether or not I thought the rules were laid out properly or not).
I know your comment wasn't likely intended as a personal attack, but it's close-minded viewpoints like that that make want to just stay at home and wash my car on the weekend, not travel across the countryside, at significant expense to myself, judging shows.
Wired, you may well be an excellent judge, and if so, you should want a rating system like the one that has been proposed so you can climb above the wanna-be judges out there, and get the respect you deserve. The system will weed out the inferior judges and help eliminate one of the biggest problems in the sport of car audio.
What bothers me about the whole thing is NOT new judges that are brought on board, no matter what their background and experience is. It's new judges that 'think' they are the '****', then go on to do a crappy job, and cost someone who has spent thousands and thousands of dollars on their system the recognition they deserve. I've seen some of the new breed of local judges score cars not knowing the functional definitions of stage height, stage depth, soundstage, images, ambiance and so on. How could I be proud to be involved with that?
I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours judging peoples cars and ten times that evaluating equipment. I do it honestly, enthusiastically and I think I did a good job. I never once had a surprise on the stage come trophy time in any class I judged, and I never had any complaints from the vehicle owners (that weren't resolved after a simple explanation of how the scoring was done). I may not have appeared to take judging anally seriously (making jokes, looking at girls walking by, swapping judge positions, etc.), but the scores on the sheet always accurately represented how well the car performed based on the criteria laid out by IASCA (wether or not I thought the rules were laid out properly or not).
I know your comment wasn't likely intended as a personal attack, but it's close-minded viewpoints like that that make want to just stay at home and wash my car on the weekend, not travel across the countryside, at significant expense to myself, judging shows.
Wired, you may well be an excellent judge, and if so, you should want a rating system like the one that has been proposed so you can climb above the wanna-be judges out there, and get the respect you deserve. The system will weed out the inferior judges and help eliminate one of the biggest problems in the sport of car audio.
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,260
so dave, if all the decent judges like yourself, (and i think you know how much respect i have for you) decide to quit, instead of re-vamping the system, we might as well just all go spl now. As much as it may suck, its up to you guys to pass on the torch. I just made a post in mark e's forum on carsound about this. Everyone bitches about the current state of iasca, but with it going through a 'rebirth', now is the time that we as competitors have to stand up, and make iasca what WE want it to be. Not what shareholders of the harman group* want it to be.
*just the first example that popped into my head.
*just the first example that popped into my head.
Yankee
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 109
"I was at Audiothunder last year...I did not see a big U.S. name there for the SQ part of the show, or for SPL for that matter....where the hell is Mark Eldridge and Gary Biggs? Are they so busy that they can't find the time to come up to a canadian show?"
I have to respond to this statement. Mark and Gary had just joined JBL at the beginning of 2003 - and I know both cars were torn down and didn't make an appearance until late in the season. Mark had the 4runner at Nopi in Sept. Gary didn't get his ready until iasca finals.
This season, JBL will have a schedule for all of us.
You are sure there will be no sq competition at the Audio Thunder? That sucks.
[ December 28, 2003, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: AZSPL ]
I have to respond to this statement. Mark and Gary had just joined JBL at the beginning of 2003 - and I know both cars were torn down and didn't make an appearance until late in the season. Mark had the 4runner at Nopi in Sept. Gary didn't get his ready until iasca finals.
This season, JBL will have a schedule for all of us.
You are sure there will be no sq competition at the Audio Thunder? That sucks.
[ December 28, 2003, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: AZSPL ]
0 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 38
Dave
I don't think I was being closed minded with my statement after reading some quotes from other judges and yourself.correct me if I am wrong.
Seems to me you had to start judging sometime and you were a rookie judge at one point.I just took offence to these statements.At this time I don't agree that Iasca needs fighting amongst the ranks.as for your other statement
I think this is where veteran judges should step up to the plate and help the "rookie judge" understand the rule book.Also to give them the knowledge of your experience.I know judging my first season with Iasca was very intimidating.I welcomed the input and valued opinions of the veteran judges I was paired with.And I did agree with tom about the rating system.
Seems the people in IASCA need to pull together rather than fight amongst themselves.It would only benefit our sport.The reason behind myself becoming a judge was to further my knowledge of car audio and to pass this on to others.I just hope other judges like yourself do the same.
[ December 28, 2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: wired_4_sound ]
I don't think I was being closed minded with my statement after reading some quotes from other judges and yourself.correct me if I am wrong.
Quality judges.. reminds me of Military Intelligence and other Oxymoron's...
Seems like anyone around here is allowed to judge a show. Why do you think I stopped judging? Dave_MacKinnon
Golden Toque
Member # 20
posted December 22, 2003 04:51 PM
Seems like anyone around here is allowed to judge a show. Why do you think I stopped judging? Dave_MacKinnon
Golden Toque
Member # 20
posted December 22, 2003 04:51 PM
we also recognize that there are some judges who many not be the brightest lights hanging from the ceiling and they do not add much to the process.
dawgsbreakfast
McKenzie
Member # 1095
posted December 23, 2003 07:46
dawgsbreakfast
McKenzie
Member # 1095
posted December 23, 2003 07:46
It's new judges that 'think' they are the '****', then go on to do a crappy job, and cost someone who has spent thousands and thousands of dollars on their system the recognition they deserve. I've seen some of the new breed of local judges score cars not knowing the functional definitions of stage height, stage depth, soundstage, images, ambiance and so on. How could I be proud to be involved with that?
I do agree with tom that there should be a rating system.Only because some people may just be going through the motions.Judges should be professional and should be able to take some criticism from competitor feed back.We should have comment cards attached to competitor score sheets to help evaluate a judges performance at events.
just my view
from a rookie judge.
just my view
from a rookie judge.
[ December 28, 2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: wired_4_sound ]
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
Moe-ster............... yeah, in about 5 minutes just after waking up............ note the time I posted 
I'd actually like to be part of fleshing out that idea and be more involved with it. I have no problem with you passing on that concept, though I doubt that it's an original idea that I can take credit for. Regardless, I think it needs to be done to give credit back where credit is due. Maybe we can sit down for a few minutes at CES and talk some more. Even over a nice breakfast barf-ette hosted by Paul!!! There's a lot of details that would need to be worked out and some others that have been around a lot longer then may have some better (or worse!!) insight to add.
I would also just like to add to Big Mac's comment about "being the ****". Unfortunately, I've seen some veteran judges pull that garbage (very rarely though), which I think is even worse. It will be interesting, if this grading systems happens, to see how veteran judges are integrated. My initial thoughts are that the cards should be wiped clean and everyone starts at ground zero. IASCA is being reborn and this would easily work into that ideal. If you want to get back you upper status, work hard for it, just like anyone else. If you're actually that good, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem to graduate up the ranks quickly. Mind you, that may **** quite a few people off that have been around forever and feel that their time, experience and efforts are worth a heck of a lot more then everyone elses............... and thus feel that they should be reimbursed a lot more immediately. Tough call. How do you feel about that Big Mac or anyone else that's been around for a while judging????
On that note, what does one do about senior judges/head judges in the beginning!?! Well, there's another pickle to be worked on. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
[ December 28, 2003, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: dawgsbreakfast ]
I'd actually like to be part of fleshing out that idea and be more involved with it. I have no problem with you passing on that concept, though I doubt that it's an original idea that I can take credit for. Regardless, I think it needs to be done to give credit back where credit is due. Maybe we can sit down for a few minutes at CES and talk some more. Even over a nice breakfast barf-ette hosted by Paul!!! There's a lot of details that would need to be worked out and some others that have been around a lot longer then may have some better (or worse!!) insight to add.I would also just like to add to Big Mac's comment about "being the ****". Unfortunately, I've seen some veteran judges pull that garbage (very rarely though), which I think is even worse. It will be interesting, if this grading systems happens, to see how veteran judges are integrated. My initial thoughts are that the cards should be wiped clean and everyone starts at ground zero. IASCA is being reborn and this would easily work into that ideal. If you want to get back you upper status, work hard for it, just like anyone else. If you're actually that good, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem to graduate up the ranks quickly. Mind you, that may **** quite a few people off that have been around forever and feel that their time, experience and efforts are worth a heck of a lot more then everyone elses............... and thus feel that they should be reimbursed a lot more immediately. Tough call. How do you feel about that Big Mac or anyone else that's been around for a while judging????
On that note, what does one do about senior judges/head judges in the beginning!?! Well, there's another pickle to be worked on. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
[ December 28, 2003, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: dawgsbreakfast ]
Guest
Posts: n/a
OK, this whole thing is getting blown out of whack..
I see everyone's point..
I didn't say I wasn't going to return to judging, just that some aspects of IASCA are frustrating.
Anyone who has ever met me knows 'I' I am more than willing to help anyone, be them a competitor or a fellow judge. I wouldn't have been running ofsoundmind.com out of my own pocket for the past 4 years if I wasn't more than willing to give something to the community for free. Oh wait, let me stand corrected on that, in the four years it has been up, with more than 250,000 visitors, I did have a guy donate $5 to me two months ago. I couldn't believe it, that was great.
IASCA, USACi, dB Drag all have their pros and cons. I gave up on IASCA because I was upset at how I was treated. Simple enough. No name calling, no blame to be laid on anyone. It was a simple fact of how things came together. I watched IASCA slowly spin downward for the next few years, leading to the where we are today.
I was more than overwhelmed at the level of Canadian participation at the recent finals, and it indeed gave me hope for the future. If it hadn't, I'd wouldn't be on here typing, I'd be off designing electronic things or doing one of the 50 or so product reviews I need to complete in the next two months, or something else that would be making me some cash.
If everyone plays it cool, we can rebuild IASCA. But it ain't gonna be easy.
Alma, sorry, doesn't look like there's gonna be SQ this year, but let me talk to the folks in charge and see what comes of it.
I see everyone's point..
I didn't say I wasn't going to return to judging, just that some aspects of IASCA are frustrating.
Anyone who has ever met me knows 'I' I am more than willing to help anyone, be them a competitor or a fellow judge. I wouldn't have been running ofsoundmind.com out of my own pocket for the past 4 years if I wasn't more than willing to give something to the community for free. Oh wait, let me stand corrected on that, in the four years it has been up, with more than 250,000 visitors, I did have a guy donate $5 to me two months ago. I couldn't believe it, that was great.
IASCA, USACi, dB Drag all have their pros and cons. I gave up on IASCA because I was upset at how I was treated. Simple enough. No name calling, no blame to be laid on anyone. It was a simple fact of how things came together. I watched IASCA slowly spin downward for the next few years, leading to the where we are today.
I was more than overwhelmed at the level of Canadian participation at the recent finals, and it indeed gave me hope for the future. If it hadn't, I'd wouldn't be on here typing, I'd be off designing electronic things or doing one of the 50 or so product reviews I need to complete in the next two months, or something else that would be making me some cash.
If everyone plays it cool, we can rebuild IASCA. But it ain't gonna be easy.
Alma, sorry, doesn't look like there's gonna be SQ this year, but let me talk to the folks in charge and see what comes of it.
Yankee
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 109
Dave, most people think all I care about is spl - but we need a combination of both sq and spl to make this industry grow. I know the money and attention is in spl right now. We need to work toward bring attention back to sound quality. It was there a few years ago and perhaps its time for competitors to work to get it back.
Just remember, without consumers-competitors purchasing products, there is no organizations and there is no industry as we know it today.
I guess we all need to stop and decide if we are going to follow or lead.
Food for thought....
Just remember, without consumers-competitors purchasing products, there is no organizations and there is no industry as we know it today.
I guess we all need to stop and decide if we are going to follow or lead.
Food for thought....
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
I think as mentioned before, as far as rules for competition go, IASCA has the right format and has done the right thing by sticking to what it now has and not changing anything. Now what's needed is the supporting infrastructure to surround it and from what I understand, Paul P. has been working on that. Three issues that I can see right now are (in no significant order), are managing the judging field and their realted compensation, somehow developing strong ties with dealers that are on the front lines (making sure that they know and understand that IASCA is a benefit to their business and an important tool that they should or must have in order for their business to continue to grow and survive) and a unified finals. Oh yeah, one other thing. I think that it would be a huge benefit to attract back some of the old timers for competing as well as judging. Many of these old farts have a lot to offer and many great stories to tell with regards to how they cheated in the past with many little dirty tricks
