dsuel1

Alright, so I am VERY new to car audio, and would love to learn.

Only problem is, i dont know where to start.

Now, with my current setup (that i get to just look at, while my new w3 is on its way in the mail) is as follows

Pioneer premier head unit (cant tell you the exact model number as i cant find it anywhere on it, and i misplaced the box.. but it was purchased in 2008. all i see is 50wx4... not sure of the voltage output)

jl500/1v2 amp.

jl12w3v3-4 subwoofer. <--- currently dead,,, cloud of smoke, finito.

Now, this amp is definatly pushing into the danger zone of the subwoofer, however i got a really good deal on the amp, so i want to keep it.

How can i set up my amp, so when i get my new sub, i dont burn the voice coil again?

the manual gives me a brief description on what everything is, however, i dont know what to start setting stuff as. for example "q" ... great. its the parametric EQ. so... what exatly does that do in words a 5 year old can understand? and, where should i be setting these features? ... etc with pretty well all the settings on this amp.

Next, what am i listening for when it comes to how much the sub can take, and when i should start to back down? What exactly does, "frapping" "clipping" "over excursion" etc actually sound?

and lastly, what should i be doing with my head unit? keeping the bass at 0? keeping the SW settings at 0? ( goes from -24 to +6)

any insight would be more than appreciated. Im just lost. I keep getting different stories from everyone i talk to.

Edit- also.. im curious as to what "normal", and "reverse" are, on my head unit, in the subwoofer control. One shows the sub facing up, one shows the sub facing down when selected.

MTT

iTrader: (17)

firstly, "normal and reverse" is just the phase of the sub, try them both and stick with whichever sounds better to you.

I've used the w3's in the past, they sound great, but don't like to be pushed out of their comfort level. (smoked a pair myself)


The main thing to do is set the gains properly. I'm guessing they are too high and you are asking more from the sub than it can produce.

as for the sounds, the sub should sound like the instrument it's reproducing (sounds silly I know) but as soon as it sounds different, it's straining and the voice coils heat up and eventually melt (smells nice eh?) if it's producing more heat than it can dissipate, it'll burn up.

so what you're listening or is the sub making unrealistic sounds, is the sub the dominant driver in the system? is there more bass than treble?...if so, the w3 is not the sub for you.

you didn't mention what type of enclosure the sub is in (I don't think)

short of it is, don't worry about the "Q" on the parametric eq, it's basically the width or how many frequencies that particular eq band will cover.....eq is not you're problem here.

I'd turn down the gains and listen, being realistic about what expect from the sub, it's an SQ sub, not designed or intended to "pound"

turning the infrasonic filter "on" and set the dial directly beneath the switch to somewhere between the 30 and 45 mark will help (again depending on enclosure).

dsuel1

Sorry, its in a side slot ported box.

and honestly, the gain was all the way down when it blew :P

I was running this sub at 200w rms before i upgraded to the jl amp.

So, im aware that this sub is for clarity, and i absolutly LOVE it for this reason. However, there are those times when you want to... play with your bass :P its jsut too tempting sometimes.

SO, i guess mostly what im wondering. is.. when playing material with heavy bass. what am i listening for as warnings. Cause honestly. To the untrained ear.. that sub was sounding amazing right before it blew.

Might i add, wheni was running the 200W rms amp on it. i smelt it burning at some points. (i didnt know that the smell was it burning however, as i never smelt a sub burn before... smelt more like wood glue than anything, which i honestly thought was coming from the construction of the box. But, its quite obvious now that after it smoked out, it was definatly the sub :P)

another fact is, i bought the sub from a box office company who had this sub hooked up, in the box its in right now, on the floor. hooked to a 1000W amp. So... with this information... perhaps it was a lemon from the start? or maybe they just pounded the **** out of it before i bought it?

MTT

iTrader: (17)

That would be my guess.

dsuel1

As i thought.

So, as far as the matching of this amp vs sub. How easy is it going to be to blow it? if i were to hook a watt meter up to my speaker cables (if thats ever possible?) then keep it in the 300watt range? or maybe 400 but, not for too long?

any suggestions for me until i can get used to what is good, what is bad?

Also.. i listen to a lot of metal, anywhere from death, to classic. is the "double kick" going to be hard on the sub vs say, some rap , or bass testers i hear most people pounding?

casue honestly. the drums, and bass gutiars just sound freaking amazing with the W3... im running an old phoenix gold right now while i wait for the w3... and its no where NEAR the SQ...

mustaine4prez

I just wanna say welcome to the wonderful world of Car audio. and welcome to the CCA forums. you'll find a lot of knowledgeable people in here that are always willing to help fellow car audio enthusiast.
BE-WARNED,CAR AUDIO/VIDEO CAN BE AN ADDICTION.

jstoner22

iTrader: (1)

i wouldn't be worried about running that amp with the w3 at all.

it is much easier to blow speakers that are underpowered than overpowered.

its like a car that can go 200mph. do you need it? no. but it will drive smoother at 100mph than a car that can only go 105.

set your gains properly and that amp/sub combo will be no issue. also, set it by ear and visual. it is much more difficult to hear distortion from a subwoofer than speakers. tune it by ear, and when you think its maxed out cleanly, pop your trunk and look at your sub. you shouldn't hear mechanical noise, if it is popping at all, back it down, even if you can't hear it in the car. just google how to properly set an amplifier and you will find hundreds of quick ways to properly do it.

MR2NR

iTrader: (66)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Mind if I don't take your advice.....

"it is much easier to blow speakers that are underpowered than overpowered."

This is completely incorrect. I can underpower a speaker all day long and as long as I do not break the thermal or mechanical barriers of the speaker it will play all day long. How many speakers (not subs) only see deck power yet run for years and years and years..... until you break the thermal or mechanical barrier on them or they just plain die from age.

Mechanical failure means that you are running the speaker past it's design parameters and for lack of better words it is like a big wet fart. No control of the motion of the speaker (clipping) can lead to surrounds tearing, spiders ripping etc.

Heat is the sworn enemy of all cases of speaker failure that is not a mechanical failure. This can only come from too much power, be it clipped or clean, if you break the thermal barrier of the speaker, it is going to die a horrible smelly death. If you smell smoke and burning, you have broken the thermal barrier and once you break it, it is a downward spiral from that point on IF it does not die on the spot. Heat is a natural byproduct of the production of power. If you are pushing the W3 into the danger zone and you knew it, expect it to happen again if you continue to use it the same way and leave it set the same way.

If you want to be safe, change the way you use the system and have it set up. Do not listen to it for extended periods of time so as to allow the speaker to cool down. Leave the gain set low, turn off bass boosts, don't pin the sub level control. End result for you though, if you want what you had before you are going to need a sub that has a higher level of thermal capacity. If you want to change your ways and accept the W3 for what it can do, then go for it.

While this is a Readers Digest version on what is going on, it should provide to you enough information to research and learn from at the same time.

jstoner22

iTrader: (1)

its the fact that people will be sending severely clipped signals to their speakers with an underpowered amp. as soon as that happens you are going to be frying the speakers double time.

, i completely agree, heat is the sworn enemy, and clipping is a very easy way to generate copious amounts of heat within a sub.
its completley possible to blow overpowered speakers. but i would rather have an overpowered speakers properly set up than an underpowered one with an amp being pushed too hard. i shouldn't have said easier, but possibly more common.
...again comes the importance of properly set gains.

dsuel1

Well, to repsond to all replys.

First off, this is behind the seat of my extended cab ranger, so, it shuold be easy to hear anything you described.

Second, if i do blow this one again, i will probably be upgrading my sub. I dont plan to be pushing it to the limit that i did though. I was curious on what it could do. and well, honestly it sounded amazing at the volume i had it at. and could hear no objections from the speaker. BUT, i think the sub was on the "downwards spiral" from the beginning.

at 200watts rms, and no "clipping" from the amp. it was burning. slightly, very very faint odor that wouldnt go away, no matter what volume.

I did notice when i lightly pushed on the speaker from the begining... it had a bit of a rough travel. kind of like small small amounts of small sand in it. But, didnt think anything of it, as, well, im a complete moron when it comes to sound systems. (This is the second sub i have ever had... and the first was 2 mtx 4500 thunders, running also at 200rms split between them)

I have no need for overpowering bass. i mostly want SQ... its just the fact i got my "fancy" new amp (for me at least) and wanted to play. (it took about 20 mins at near full volume before it went up in smoke... which by the way, the odor wasnt anything different than normal, till it acutally popped. i always assumed the box had been glued, and the smell was just the odor of the glue being pushed out the port)

I know a little better now, and im very dissapointed in this nameless company that sold this sub to me. as are a lot of other companys i'v been talking to.

Thanks for all your help (everyone) and ill let you know how this sub handles compaired to before when it gets back from JL.

PS. what sub would you reccomend that has compairable SQ, but, can handle more of a load? in roughly the same price range?... so... probably not JL, unless they have a sub im not aware of (w0,w3,w6,w7 as far as i know?) :P


edit: Also, is there anyway of monitering the wattage being put into the speaker? that i can rig up? or is it going to be just play it by ear? . or ever heat of the sub. which seems virtually impossible... b ut i thought i would ask anyways, i have seen people rig up some pretty akward stuff...