Eclipse power amp, best choice ?
09-25-2008, 01:03 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
Eclipse power amp, best choice ?
Hi all...
Someone suggested me to get the EA 4200, for my 07 Civic ,
for it's superior cleanness... Along with a pair of 6 1/2 Morell speakers.
Is this a good recommendation ?, Or is there something comparable , and easyier to find from a canadian online retailer ?..
http://www.eclipse-web.com/amp/ea4200.html
Thanks for any sesible advice...
Someone suggested me to get the EA 4200, for my 07 Civic ,
for it's superior cleanness... Along with a pair of 6 1/2 Morell speakers.
Is this a good recommendation ?, Or is there something comparable , and easyier to find from a canadian online retailer ?..
http://www.eclipse-web.com/amp/ea4200.html
Thanks for any sesible advice...
09-28-2008, 11:44 AM
#2
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 723
I'm curious to see what people suggest for you.
I had a quick look at both of these products because I'm not familiar with either brand.
I looked at Morel's entry level 6.5" Component speakers which have been rated for 120W RMS. They also provide a 4 Ohm load to the amp. The Eclipse amp you have listed will provide 60W per channel on a 4 Ohm load. So essentially, with this set up, you'd be providing 50% of the power the speakers are rated for.
I'd like to know if experienced people think it would be prudent to get a beefier amp that's capable of producing more RMS per channel. I'm not sure that more wattage would result in your 6.5" producing cleaner sound. Or if this is something that is affected more by the components of which the amp is made.
I'm not sure if you'd want to replace the rear speakers as well, since this is a 4 channel amp. Also, the amp can be bridged at 4 Ohm to supply 150W x 2 ch. You can't bridge speakers that are on separate sides of a vehicle, or can you?
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=15801
Maybe something like this would allow the speakers to perform at their full potential.
I had a quick look at both of these products because I'm not familiar with either brand.
I looked at Morel's entry level 6.5" Component speakers which have been rated for 120W RMS. They also provide a 4 Ohm load to the amp. The Eclipse amp you have listed will provide 60W per channel on a 4 Ohm load. So essentially, with this set up, you'd be providing 50% of the power the speakers are rated for.
I'd like to know if experienced people think it would be prudent to get a beefier amp that's capable of producing more RMS per channel. I'm not sure that more wattage would result in your 6.5" producing cleaner sound. Or if this is something that is affected more by the components of which the amp is made.
I'm not sure if you'd want to replace the rear speakers as well, since this is a 4 channel amp. Also, the amp can be bridged at 4 Ohm to supply 150W x 2 ch. You can't bridge speakers that are on separate sides of a vehicle, or can you?
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=15801
Maybe something like this would allow the speakers to perform at their full potential.
09-28-2008, 07:12 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
I already have replaced the rear stock speakers with Infinity Kappa 6.1, rated 2-75 whats rms @ 2 ohms, I believe.
the sound, from the rear has now improved greatly, but lacking in power.
I must say ,I'm pretty suspicious of whom , suggested the morell speakers & the Eclipse amp. This sale pitch was made on the ground that I'm over fity, and my hearing is in decline. The morell speakers are supposed to be vastly superior to the infinity Kappa 60.9 cs, according to the salesperson.
The Audiocontrol LC6i was also recommended over the "PAC AOEMHON17 Interface".
http://www.mobileaudiocontrol.com/product.asp?Product_Id=222456&d_Id=17612&l1=17612& l2=
Now, I'd like to find a good clean "small form factor" amp & i really like the sound of Infinity...
the sound, from the rear has now improved greatly, but lacking in power.
I must say ,I'm pretty suspicious of whom , suggested the morell speakers & the Eclipse amp. This sale pitch was made on the ground that I'm over fity, and my hearing is in decline. The morell speakers are supposed to be vastly superior to the infinity Kappa 60.9 cs, according to the salesperson.
The Audiocontrol LC6i was also recommended over the "PAC AOEMHON17 Interface".
http://www.mobileaudiocontrol.com/product.asp?Product_Id=222456&d_Id=17612&l1=17612& l2=
Now, I'd like to find a good clean "small form factor" amp & i really like the sound of Infinity...
09-28-2008, 07:50 PM
#4
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 723
Who suggested that your hearing isn't what it used to be, yourself, or the salesman?
I'd say, if your hearing truly is in decline, then buying premium speakers is a waste if your not able to hear all the sounds they can produce. Unless they're amplified enough to produce those sounds at a dB you can hear. I guess he's thinking that of the sound you do hear, it'll be of higher quality.
But you can still amplify a lesser quality speaker that will still sound a lot better than stock.
Onlinecarstereo.Com - Wholesale Car Audio/Stereo Deals At Bargain Prices
Check out this site. I haven't purchased anything from them, yet. Their prices seem very competitive. At least its a good way to find out whats available all at one site. Pick a few things that peak your interest, then come back here to get some 'professional' opinions/experiences.
I'd say, if your hearing truly is in decline, then buying premium speakers is a waste if your not able to hear all the sounds they can produce. Unless they're amplified enough to produce those sounds at a dB you can hear. I guess he's thinking that of the sound you do hear, it'll be of higher quality.
But you can still amplify a lesser quality speaker that will still sound a lot better than stock.
Onlinecarstereo.Com - Wholesale Car Audio/Stereo Deals At Bargain Prices
Check out this site. I haven't purchased anything from them, yet. Their prices seem very competitive. At least its a good way to find out whats available all at one site. Pick a few things that peak your interest, then come back here to get some 'professional' opinions/experiences.
09-28-2008, 09:42 PM
#5
I think this is a customer from my store, how interesting....
To suggest to a customer without basis of fact is just plain incorrect, so I refrain from it. I as a business owner also look at what is in my customers best interest. If I do not stock it, I find it. This is always a win win situation for the customer.
To suggest something to a customer based on fact, such as yes as we age our hearing also degrades. It is always a good thing to gain as much information from the customer about all aspects of things before recommendations are made. There are very very few people in this industry that will indeed find out what the customer truly should look at and instead sell them what is "spiffed" or is the hot seller of the month or may happen to be all that the store may be able to get.
A good set of speakers is always important regardless of if our hearing is in decline or not. While some people may shop for speakers based on a name, I prefer to choose speakers based on real life performance that I can personally guarantee. The post above has recommended a 2 channel Power Acoustic made amplifier, no offence to the line as it is a line I also sell, but it is a entry level amplifier by comparison. The Eclipse is a great amplifier that always exceeds it's ratings. It was chosen for it's small chassis, low heat signature, low current draw and more than adequate amount of power to run his system, not just two speakers as the one recommended in the post above. The nice thing here is that if it is not enough power, it is simple for a local shop to change out. Does this customer need more power, I highly highly doubt it. Will any set of speakers sound good off of even 40 watts rms per channel, definitely. Would a average person hear a difference in output from 60w to 90 watts, probably not and how will the person be using the volume control. If this were a 20 years old male coming in and had the income to invest properly, and he had clarified how he will be using the system, perhaps a larger amp would be suitable for him.
Again, to be able to sit down with a customer and look at what they need and to be able to choose the right options for them is the ideal solution. I wish that I had more customers that would come into my door with the ability to do this. I take pride in how I do business and with my customers that I have dealt with for the last 20 years. If you are indeed the customer who visited my business, I am available pretty much all the time to sit down and go through anything that you require in detail. If I do not have the answer you seek, I will find it.
subnote here..... I suggested the Morel speakers as a superior speaker to the MB Quart, Eclipse, Focal and Infinity. All are available to my business and it would be easy street to sell a customer what they come in for but to not allow the customer to know of other possibly superior options does the customer no service at all. All the companies are great companies, all have their strengths and weaknesses, the trick is to know which ones and where and how to apply them to the customers needs.
To suggest to a customer without basis of fact is just plain incorrect, so I refrain from it. I as a business owner also look at what is in my customers best interest. If I do not stock it, I find it. This is always a win win situation for the customer.
To suggest something to a customer based on fact, such as yes as we age our hearing also degrades. It is always a good thing to gain as much information from the customer about all aspects of things before recommendations are made. There are very very few people in this industry that will indeed find out what the customer truly should look at and instead sell them what is "spiffed" or is the hot seller of the month or may happen to be all that the store may be able to get.
A good set of speakers is always important regardless of if our hearing is in decline or not. While some people may shop for speakers based on a name, I prefer to choose speakers based on real life performance that I can personally guarantee. The post above has recommended a 2 channel Power Acoustic made amplifier, no offence to the line as it is a line I also sell, but it is a entry level amplifier by comparison. The Eclipse is a great amplifier that always exceeds it's ratings. It was chosen for it's small chassis, low heat signature, low current draw and more than adequate amount of power to run his system, not just two speakers as the one recommended in the post above. The nice thing here is that if it is not enough power, it is simple for a local shop to change out. Does this customer need more power, I highly highly doubt it. Will any set of speakers sound good off of even 40 watts rms per channel, definitely. Would a average person hear a difference in output from 60w to 90 watts, probably not and how will the person be using the volume control. If this were a 20 years old male coming in and had the income to invest properly, and he had clarified how he will be using the system, perhaps a larger amp would be suitable for him.
Again, to be able to sit down with a customer and look at what they need and to be able to choose the right options for them is the ideal solution. I wish that I had more customers that would come into my door with the ability to do this. I take pride in how I do business and with my customers that I have dealt with for the last 20 years. If you are indeed the customer who visited my business, I am available pretty much all the time to sit down and go through anything that you require in detail. If I do not have the answer you seek, I will find it.
subnote here..... I suggested the Morel speakers as a superior speaker to the MB Quart, Eclipse, Focal and Infinity. All are available to my business and it would be easy street to sell a customer what they come in for but to not allow the customer to know of other possibly superior options does the customer no service at all. All the companies are great companies, all have their strengths and weaknesses, the trick is to know which ones and where and how to apply them to the customers needs.
09-28-2008, 10:01 PM
#6
[QUOTE=TragicMagic;401548]
I'd like to know if experienced people think it would be prudent to get a beefier amp that's capable of producing more RMS per channel. I'm not sure that more wattage would result in your 6.5" producing cleaner sound. Or if this is something that is affected more by the components of which the amp is made.
I'm not sure if you'd want to replace the rear speakers as well, since this is a 4 channel amp. Also, the amp can be bridged at 4 Ohm to supply 150W x 2 ch. You can't bridge speakers that are on separate sides of a vehicle, or can you?
QUOTE]
Tragic, thanks for asking some questions. Lets see if we can answer them for you.
A beefier amp can bring a speaker to life. However, just because a speaker has a higher power handling ability does not mean that at 50% input power it is not going to sound good or sound cleaner. What it would do is make it louder. Louder should not be construed as better sounding as the two things are totally different. To set of two speakers of different brands and have one of double the power rating of the other and provide each set of speakers the same amount of input power would give the customer two different sounds. This is a function of the speaker and not the amplifier. More power on the input side is going to result in louder response. There are good amplifiers, there are great amplifiers and there are well, crap ones that masquerade as good. Choose wisely. I too am a customer to all the companies that sell me equipment that I sell to my customers.... I too choose wisely.
Speakers are not bridged, amplifiers are. The speakers should he want to (but not recommended for a multitude of reasons - which if you would like me to answer, I will) could for your the sake of your question be wired together in a parallel or series circuit. This is what you may be thinking of. This would not be anywhere near a good option for the customer. Could the bridge the amp and use the increased power available to him to up the front speakers, yes he could. How would it affect the rear though? Chances are that the rear speakers would be a little lost in trying to keep up with the front and he would also have lost the crossover on them at the same time. This means that as his volume increases, the chance of damage to the rear speakers due to not being crossed over is drastically increased. When a amplified speaker is playing that much louder than the unamplified one, it is easy as pie for most people to never ever hear the other set of speakers distorting. End result is that one day the person has a blown speaker, thinking that it may have been the best ever and impervious to this phenomonon. Well it happens and it happens all the time. It is always best to teach the customer how to use their system is what it comes down to.
He has some good rear speakers, he has no need to change them at all. The front speakers though are the most important in the vehicle. You don't go to a concert and have the person sing from behind you all night now do you. Good front speakers provide more enjoyment for the person in the car for a customer who wants to listen to their music. This is what would lead me to recommend a highly regarded line like Morel to a discerning customer.
I'd like to know if experienced people think it would be prudent to get a beefier amp that's capable of producing more RMS per channel. I'm not sure that more wattage would result in your 6.5" producing cleaner sound. Or if this is something that is affected more by the components of which the amp is made.
I'm not sure if you'd want to replace the rear speakers as well, since this is a 4 channel amp. Also, the amp can be bridged at 4 Ohm to supply 150W x 2 ch. You can't bridge speakers that are on separate sides of a vehicle, or can you?
QUOTE]
Tragic, thanks for asking some questions. Lets see if we can answer them for you.
A beefier amp can bring a speaker to life. However, just because a speaker has a higher power handling ability does not mean that at 50% input power it is not going to sound good or sound cleaner. What it would do is make it louder. Louder should not be construed as better sounding as the two things are totally different. To set of two speakers of different brands and have one of double the power rating of the other and provide each set of speakers the same amount of input power would give the customer two different sounds. This is a function of the speaker and not the amplifier. More power on the input side is going to result in louder response. There are good amplifiers, there are great amplifiers and there are well, crap ones that masquerade as good. Choose wisely. I too am a customer to all the companies that sell me equipment that I sell to my customers.... I too choose wisely.
Speakers are not bridged, amplifiers are. The speakers should he want to (but not recommended for a multitude of reasons - which if you would like me to answer, I will) could for your the sake of your question be wired together in a parallel or series circuit. This is what you may be thinking of. This would not be anywhere near a good option for the customer. Could the bridge the amp and use the increased power available to him to up the front speakers, yes he could. How would it affect the rear though? Chances are that the rear speakers would be a little lost in trying to keep up with the front and he would also have lost the crossover on them at the same time. This means that as his volume increases, the chance of damage to the rear speakers due to not being crossed over is drastically increased. When a amplified speaker is playing that much louder than the unamplified one, it is easy as pie for most people to never ever hear the other set of speakers distorting. End result is that one day the person has a blown speaker, thinking that it may have been the best ever and impervious to this phenomonon. Well it happens and it happens all the time. It is always best to teach the customer how to use their system is what it comes down to.
He has some good rear speakers, he has no need to change them at all. The front speakers though are the most important in the vehicle. You don't go to a concert and have the person sing from behind you all night now do you. Good front speakers provide more enjoyment for the person in the car for a customer who wants to listen to their music. This is what would lead me to recommend a highly regarded line like Morel to a discerning customer.
09-29-2008, 06:59 AM
#7
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 723
To Mr. Tuner,
Thanks for breaking that down for me. I'm still trying to soak up as much of this information as possible.
I wasn't suggesting that supplying the Morels' with 50% of their rated power would result in poor sound production, but rather throwing out the question as to what benefit would be derived from using an amp that can supply the speaker's RMS wattage, if any. More power equals more volume, generally. So, just for arguments sake, if one did supply 90% RMS power, would the increase in dB, decrease the cleanliness of the sound? Or would the quality of the sound remain constant with the increase in dB (volume)?
What if I put it this way; are there wattage levels supplied to any given speaker that will optimize its ability to create 'clean' sound? A speaker might have an RMS of 'x'W, but it plays its frequency range with more precision at (60% of x)W, is this a scenario that exists?
As for my amp selection. It wasn't a suggestion. Just merely showing that amps are available that can supply the speakers RMS range. And that's why I asked for an explanation as to what benefits, if any, would come with providing more power.
Userdude, it might be a good idea to sit down with MR2NR and let him get into all the details with you. The more information you're equipped with, the easier your decision will be.
Thanks for breaking that down for me. I'm still trying to soak up as much of this information as possible.
I wasn't suggesting that supplying the Morels' with 50% of their rated power would result in poor sound production, but rather throwing out the question as to what benefit would be derived from using an amp that can supply the speaker's RMS wattage, if any. More power equals more volume, generally. So, just for arguments sake, if one did supply 90% RMS power, would the increase in dB, decrease the cleanliness of the sound? Or would the quality of the sound remain constant with the increase in dB (volume)?
What if I put it this way; are there wattage levels supplied to any given speaker that will optimize its ability to create 'clean' sound? A speaker might have an RMS of 'x'W, but it plays its frequency range with more precision at (60% of x)W, is this a scenario that exists?
As for my amp selection. It wasn't a suggestion. Just merely showing that amps are available that can supply the speakers RMS range. And that's why I asked for an explanation as to what benefits, if any, would come with providing more power.
Userdude, it might be a good idea to sit down with MR2NR and let him get into all the details with you. The more information you're equipped with, the easier your decision will be.
09-29-2008, 10:02 PM
#8
0 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
Maybe I am missing something here...
I'm not as technically savvied as most of you, but my original post was
only about finding alternate options "outside my locality ,if need be" , as far as power amp/ component speakers relation goes...
Kiker, & JL audio are brands which I am currently doing ressearch on...
therefore, if any of you, has purchased , & enjoyed these products ,as a customer, I would appreciate your feedback.
I guess my beef , " if i had one that is" , would be with the likes of crutchfield canada, for not listing the same available options on their canadian site as their U.S one...
There is seemingly a substancial difference in price & choice between both sides of the border..
I'm not as technically savvied as most of you, but my original post was
only about finding alternate options "outside my locality ,if need be" , as far as power amp/ component speakers relation goes...
Kiker, & JL audio are brands which I am currently doing ressearch on...
therefore, if any of you, has purchased , & enjoyed these products ,as a customer, I would appreciate your feedback.
I guess my beef , " if i had one that is" , would be with the likes of crutchfield canada, for not listing the same available options on their canadian site as their U.S one...
There is seemingly a substancial difference in price & choice between both sides of the border..
09-30-2008, 03:02 AM
#9
I have around 25% to 30% hearing loss in both ears (over 50) and it's getting worse, but I can tell you that you will hear a difference from lets say "average" components to "medium high end or above" components. Of course the volume will need to be a little higher than what it may be for a 17yr old to hear those notes.
If I have my 17yr old in the car the sound level bothers his ears, but to me its just fine. When I drop the volume I cant hear the high notes very much at all, and I have the tweeter pods directed into my face pretty much.
As for more amp power, I have upgraded a fair amount lately and I notice a difference in sound quality at medium and higher volumes.
I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I always understood when you get those cymbal crashes and heavy bass notes (peaks) it momentarily draws up to 50% more power from the amp. So the more "headroom" you have, the better (if thats the correct term).
Now, thats what I was taught ages ago and if I'm on the wrong track then i'd like someone to point it out.
Cheers
John
If I have my 17yr old in the car the sound level bothers his ears, but to me its just fine. When I drop the volume I cant hear the high notes very much at all, and I have the tweeter pods directed into my face pretty much.
As for more amp power, I have upgraded a fair amount lately and I notice a difference in sound quality at medium and higher volumes.
I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I always understood when you get those cymbal crashes and heavy bass notes (peaks) it momentarily draws up to 50% more power from the amp. So the more "headroom" you have, the better (if thats the correct term).
Now, thats what I was taught ages ago and if I'm on the wrong track then i'd like someone to point it out.
Cheers
John
09-30-2008, 02:24 PM
#10
John, you are pretty much on the right track. With most amplifiers able to produce more than ample amounts of headroom, the peaks you speak of are most certainly reproduced. While it does indeed take more current to do this for a subwoofer, a tweeter does not need much power at all.
One thing you said actually now that I think about it just happened here at home last night. While my girl can sit and watch tv, to her at a comfortable level, I cannot hear it at all. At the same time she can hear the clock radio at the other end of the house and the fan in the computer running. Can I hear any of the three, not a chance. Turn up the tv I ask so I can hear it please, the response is, Oh my god, are you deaf?
One thing you said actually now that I think about it just happened here at home last night. While my girl can sit and watch tv, to her at a comfortable level, I cannot hear it at all. At the same time she can hear the clock radio at the other end of the house and the fan in the computer running. Can I hear any of the three, not a chance. Turn up the tv I ask so I can hear it please, the response is, Oh my god, are you deaf?
