AMP Ground to Battery?
05-12-2004, 08:07 PM
#31
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,494
Ok well after reading this... Ahhh I just get more confused, but understand... See that made no sence.
Ok, so it would be safe to run a NEGATIVE cable from the battery for your amp GROUND?? Or is it better to run a cable from the NEGATIVE post of the battery, and then ground it to the chassi, and then run your amp GROUND off that? Ok so what is the major loss here? Like if I were to do this, is this going to affect my charging system of my vechile at all, or will this improve the power going to my amp?? So if I did that "big 3", and then did that cable from teh NEGATIVE post of my battery to the chassi near my amp, and then GROUND my amp to the exact same location?????
So yeah... I dont know. Ahha
-db
Ok, so it would be safe to run a NEGATIVE cable from the battery for your amp GROUND?? Or is it better to run a cable from the NEGATIVE post of the battery, and then ground it to the chassi, and then run your amp GROUND off that? Ok so what is the major loss here? Like if I were to do this, is this going to affect my charging system of my vechile at all, or will this improve the power going to my amp?? So if I did that "big 3", and then did that cable from teh NEGATIVE post of my battery to the chassi near my amp, and then GROUND my amp to the exact same location?????
So yeah... I dont know. Ahha
-db
05-12-2004, 08:38 PM
#32
The part that the Big 3 leaves out is checking the resistance on the ground return. So yes upgrade the big 3 as suggested, however, just by doing this upgrade does not guarantee a low resistance reading on the ground return. Therefor it is always advised to measure the resistance on the return and if it cannot be made to cooperate then run a line direct to the battery. The more an amp has to stuggle to get power, the more it will struggle to make power.
05-12-2004, 08:52 PM
#33
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,494
Ok that last sentence is very true in every way you look at it....
Ok so really will I LOOSE anything if I dont run that NEGATIVE cable from the post of the battery to my amp???
What is teh best way to get power to my amp WITHOUT 2 batteries.
-db
Ok so really will I LOOSE anything if I dont run that NEGATIVE cable from the post of the battery to my amp???
What is teh best way to get power to my amp WITHOUT 2 batteries.
-db
05-13-2004, 09:48 AM
#35
Using extra cable from the batt to amps for ground won't make an audible difference in most cases....
If you are going for SPL and want to gain a few tenths on your SPL score as captdeath mentioned... then go for it...
If you are going for SPL and want to gain a few tenths on your SPL score as captdeath mentioned... then go for it...
05-13-2004, 10:45 AM
#36
This is not about an audable difference, it is about how it can affect the capabilities of an amplifier. If you have ever had an amplifiers power supply smoke for no apparent reason, the reistance on the ground return is the first place to look for a cause. This is a long term problem (or short term if the resistance is sky high). Just like a bad camber adjustment on your wheels, gradually one part of the tire will wear more than the other and if not corrected, the tire will have to be replaced.
In the case of car audio most people assume that because the amp turns on and the speakers are operating that all is well. This is fine but a good installer will do the extra little work to find out if it is a good solid connection or not. Part of what sets a shop like mine apart from the competition. Here is a real simple way to think about resistance on the ground return, eat a foot long sub and then have your butt crack sewn half shut, get the picture.
In the case of car audio most people assume that because the amp turns on and the speakers are operating that all is well. This is fine but a good installer will do the extra little work to find out if it is a good solid connection or not. Part of what sets a shop like mine apart from the competition. Here is a real simple way to think about resistance on the ground return, eat a foot long sub and then have your butt crack sewn half shut, get the picture.
05-13-2004, 10:48 AM
#37
Originally posted by Dukk:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ChinaMan:
I have a question... if a proper ground wire going direct from the amp to the battery isn't important because the chassis provides more than adequate conductivity, isn't the quality of the conductor also an issue? Just like how all of us are constantly trying to find the perfect interconnects and speaker wire, well... essentially, isn't that just current flowing through wire anyway and any interconnect or speaker wire should be suffice? Thing is, through many tests, there actually IS a difference in interconnect and speaker wire and we notice it in the quality of the sound that we get. Shouldn't this apply to power and ground wires too? From my experience with home audio, many higher end units don't even come with power cords - just the IEC socket and you're off to find a proper power cord to satisfy your needs - as apparently, different power cords offer different changes in the sound. So, I'm not sure if this entirely applies, since I'm comparing AC and DC, but as someone had mentioned here earlier, the chassis of the car isn't exactly the highest quality conductor. For the price of another ground cable, would it not be worthwhile to supply your amps with a good conductor?
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ChinaMan:
I have a question... if a proper ground wire going direct from the amp to the battery isn't important because the chassis provides more than adequate conductivity, isn't the quality of the conductor also an issue? Just like how all of us are constantly trying to find the perfect interconnects and speaker wire, well... essentially, isn't that just current flowing through wire anyway and any interconnect or speaker wire should be suffice? Thing is, through many tests, there actually IS a difference in interconnect and speaker wire and we notice it in the quality of the sound that we get. Shouldn't this apply to power and ground wires too? From my experience with home audio, many higher end units don't even come with power cords - just the IEC socket and you're off to find a proper power cord to satisfy your needs - as apparently, different power cords offer different changes in the sound. So, I'm not sure if this entirely applies, since I'm comparing AC and DC, but as someone had mentioned here earlier, the chassis of the car isn't exactly the highest quality conductor. For the price of another ground cable, would it not be worthwhile to supply your amps with a good conductor?
In structured double blind testing there has yet to be a case of someone being able to positively identify one cable from another. That's not an opinion - it's fact. Well, in the capacity that if someone HAS been successful it has not been publicly promoted which you can bet it would be.
Certainly, in the case of power cable, the quality of the conductor could be SO terrible that the amplifier experienced a compromised power supply and began to behave erratically and thus affected sound but that is a WAAAAAAAYYYY longshot. In most cases the amplifier would shut off first. </font>[/QUOTE]That being said, does that mean we wouldn't benefit from quality wiring? Is the difference in wiring so negligible since on a 'physics' standpoint, it's only resistance that matters? Personally, for the lengths that we run in our cars, I doubt there would be much, if any, resistance difference in copper wire compared to aluminum or even chassis grade steel. If that's the case, that means if I bought all my wiring from the dollar store it should sound the same had I bought all kimber wiring, right?
Anyhow, I know I'm going a bit off topic, but in the same respect, I think that may affect this issue regarding running a cable back to the battery. When we ground to the chassis, the 4ga gets terminated by a gold plated terminal (hopefully soldered to cable after crimping) and screwed down to the chassis that has been sanded down, right? Well, at that instance of terminal meeting the chassis is there usually no loss of current?
I dunno... prior to this thread I've never really thought of this being an issue. Many have said never wire back to the battery because it's not a proper loop - I disagree because what difference is using a chassis vs a wire? They both go back to the batter anyhow. Now that this thread popped up, it's making me think up stuff... [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img] uh oh.
05-13-2004, 11:20 AM
#38
only on CCA a post about amp ground can go on for over 2 pages.
the answer is this -> yes it is better to ground to the battery if u are drawing tons of power, if u are not then dont bother.
i have gained real life SPL when i grounded all my amps back straight to the battery instead of the frame....and that's a fact.
[ May 13, 2004, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Tinted ]
the answer is this -> yes it is better to ground to the battery if u are drawing tons of power, if u are not then dont bother.
i have gained real life SPL when i grounded all my amps back straight to the battery instead of the frame....and that's a fact.
[ May 13, 2004, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Tinted ]
05-13-2004, 12:46 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
^ LOL - yeah on Carsound it would be 5 pages with charts, links to all sorts of technical sites, and prima-donna arguments over who is better qualified to give the right answer [img]tongue.gif[/img]
On SD we would all be banned already
Anyway - It would be a rare case that running a wire back to the battery negative was detrimental but my position is it is rarely advantagous.
In my case I happen to have an extra 20feet of 1/0 black so I am going to run a cable from the battery negative to the back of the car and ground it to the chassis along with my amps.
On SD we would all be banned already
Anyway - It would be a rare case that running a wire back to the battery negative was detrimental but my position is it is rarely advantagous.
In my case I happen to have an extra 20feet of 1/0 black so I am going to run a cable from the battery negative to the back of the car and ground it to the chassis along with my amps.
