Clarion vs. Pioneer - SQ HU
06-12-2005, 10:13 AM
#11
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,024
There is a decent looking Eclipse deck on sale right now at FS for $299. 5425 I believe it is. CD/MP3 player, 3 5 volt preouts. Not a bad looking deal, I might pick one up I think.
Does anybody know if the Eclipse decks come with any type of time alignment?
Does anybody know if the Eclipse decks come with any type of time alignment?
06-12-2005, 11:19 AM
#14
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 597
The Auto-EQ feature on the DEH-P8600MP isn't designed for personal listening as it doesn't know what you like to hear. All it tries to do is make the sound as linear as possible. This is an easy way to get your RTA score as high as possible (store it in an EQ Custom preset).
For listening preference you'd be better off creating your own EQ curve & with a built-in 13 band & it's definitely flexible enough for most people.
I owned an Eclipse 5303R back in the late '90s & loved it. It blew away my old Alpine for sound quality & looked good in the dash. Luckily I had a proximity alarm on my car becuase I'm sure it was cased by a number of theives with the deck just sitting there in the dash.
For listening preference you'd be better off creating your own EQ curve & with a built-in 13 band & it's definitely flexible enough for most people.
I owned an Eclipse 5303R back in the late '90s & loved it. It blew away my old Alpine for sound quality & looked good in the dash. Luckily I had a proximity alarm on my car becuase I'm sure it was cased by a number of theives with the deck just sitting there in the dash.
06-12-2005, 02:23 PM
#15
0 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4
Wondering about how important the better EQ options and time alignment features of the Pioneer would be to me..
I plan to upgrade my speakers in the future, but I'll probably always have them in their stock positions. Probably will get something from the MB Quart Q line and a sub of some sort that (I think) will have to (unfortunately) go in the trunk.
In my car, the tweeters are in the a-piller area, facing the driver/passenger. The mid/bass speakers are not in the door, but they're more towards the front of the car close to the floor.
The car also has speakers in the back behind the back seat, but unless someone tells me to do otherwise, I think I'd probably end up disconnecting them (I've been told that the back speakers aren't too important when it comes to sound quality in the front.. so I'd rather spend more money on good front speakers, etc)
Normally I do not play with the EQ settings with my amps and stuff like that. But I've never really had a high end car audio setup. I'm mostly making comparisons to home audio. With my home audio stuff I'd normally position my speakers properly in a good 'listening room' and therefore I wouldn't have to worry about things as you might have to in a car..
So taking all that into account, how much would I stand to benefit from the time alignment and 13 band EQ of the Pioneer unit compared to the Clarion that has no time alignment as far as I know and a much simpler EQ? (2 band Parametric for the Clarion)
Are those sorts of features 'must have's' for a car to sound nice like a good home audio system?
I don't think the Nak or McIntosh decks have time alignment - that leads me to believe that possibly it isn't too important?
And to answer some of the other questions.. I haven't seen any of the high end Eclipse stuff in my area. I looked a bit into Alpine but I didn't like the idea that even a $500 or $600 Alpine unit only had a 1 bit DAC. 16/20/24 bit DAC was one of the options I've been trying to make sure I got - anything better than 1 bit [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Thanks to everyone for your responses so far [img]smile.gif[/img]
I plan to upgrade my speakers in the future, but I'll probably always have them in their stock positions. Probably will get something from the MB Quart Q line and a sub of some sort that (I think) will have to (unfortunately) go in the trunk.
In my car, the tweeters are in the a-piller area, facing the driver/passenger. The mid/bass speakers are not in the door, but they're more towards the front of the car close to the floor.
The car also has speakers in the back behind the back seat, but unless someone tells me to do otherwise, I think I'd probably end up disconnecting them (I've been told that the back speakers aren't too important when it comes to sound quality in the front.. so I'd rather spend more money on good front speakers, etc)
Normally I do not play with the EQ settings with my amps and stuff like that. But I've never really had a high end car audio setup. I'm mostly making comparisons to home audio. With my home audio stuff I'd normally position my speakers properly in a good 'listening room' and therefore I wouldn't have to worry about things as you might have to in a car..
So taking all that into account, how much would I stand to benefit from the time alignment and 13 band EQ of the Pioneer unit compared to the Clarion that has no time alignment as far as I know and a much simpler EQ? (2 band Parametric for the Clarion)
Are those sorts of features 'must have's' for a car to sound nice like a good home audio system?
I don't think the Nak or McIntosh decks have time alignment - that leads me to believe that possibly it isn't too important?
And to answer some of the other questions.. I haven't seen any of the high end Eclipse stuff in my area. I looked a bit into Alpine but I didn't like the idea that even a $500 or $600 Alpine unit only had a 1 bit DAC. 16/20/24 bit DAC was one of the options I've been trying to make sure I got - anything better than 1 bit [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Thanks to everyone for your responses so far [img]smile.gif[/img]
06-12-2005, 06:29 PM
#16
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 597
I would think that time alignment would be valuable in any vehicle. The idea of kick panel speakers & horn-loaded compression drivers was, in essence, a way to attempt to solve time alignment problems.
Considering that your tweeters & mid-bass drivers are "off plane", I would think this would be a valuable tool in your instance.
Pioneer's involvement in audio (both mobile & home plus speaker development) allows them some extra R&D that other companies just don't have. Time alignment is used profusely in home theatre (including EVERY Elite model receiver) & creates the best possible listening environment from the limitations of the vehicles' cabin.
As far as other brands, I've seen Nakamichi make a comeback in the last few months but haven't seen much from McIntosh. I sold McIntosh & Nakamichi source units a number of years ago & found that the McIntosh was nothing to rave about (since they were purchased by Clarion in around '98 or so).
If you choose either the DEH-P8600MP, an upper end Nak unit or an upper end Eclipse I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Considering that your tweeters & mid-bass drivers are "off plane", I would think this would be a valuable tool in your instance.
Pioneer's involvement in audio (both mobile & home plus speaker development) allows them some extra R&D that other companies just don't have. Time alignment is used profusely in home theatre (including EVERY Elite model receiver) & creates the best possible listening environment from the limitations of the vehicles' cabin.
As far as other brands, I've seen Nakamichi make a comeback in the last few months but haven't seen much from McIntosh. I sold McIntosh & Nakamichi source units a number of years ago & found that the McIntosh was nothing to rave about (since they were purchased by Clarion in around '98 or so).
If you choose either the DEH-P8600MP, an upper end Nak unit or an upper end Eclipse I don't think you'll be disappointed.
06-12-2005, 09:11 PM
#17
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 253
If you go with any other rather than Eclipse at least make sure they have at least a 3 year warranty if you get any of them installed by an athorizied dealer. And allways check which one of these brands if any have no refurbished head units.
06-22-2005, 10:55 AM
#18
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3
Originally posted by konzelmann:
And to answer some of the other questions.. I haven't seen any of the high end Eclipse stuff in my area. I looked a bit into Alpine but I didn't like the idea that even a $500 or $600 Alpine unit only had a 1 bit DAC. 16/20/24 bit DAC was one of the options I've been trying to make sure I got - anything better than 1 bit [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Thanks to everyone for your responses so far [img]smile.gif[/img]
And to answer some of the other questions.. I haven't seen any of the high end Eclipse stuff in my area. I looked a bit into Alpine but I didn't like the idea that even a $500 or $600 Alpine unit only had a 1 bit DAC. 16/20/24 bit DAC was one of the options I've been trying to make sure I got - anything better than 1 bit [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Thanks to everyone for your responses so far [img]smile.gif[/img]
Either method can produce accurate sound reproduction.
A 1 bit DAC effectively reproduces the 16 bit word stored on CD's through oversampling. 1 bit DAC's also have the benefit of being linear functions (either a 1 or 0) so they are manipulated with predictable results (signal can't be screwed up through component mismatch). The down side is that they require sophisticated filtering.
The multi bit DAC is subject to the non-linearity of the quatized signal. however it is easier to get the final filtrering right.
In the end it has alot more to do with the programmed algorithms used in the circuitry and the other components in the signal flow path. Many DAC's are actually hybrid's of the 1-bit/multi-bit trying to get the best of both worlds.
There are alot of great sounding H/U's out there that have a 1 bit DAC than some lousy sounding H/U's using multi bit DACS.
Don't write off 1 bit yet.
[ June 22, 2005, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Kingby ]
06-22-2005, 11:19 AM
#19
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,423
k i know people are recomending eclips and stuff, but i would say go with clarion, mainly casue i'm a really big fan of thier stuff. and thier new deck's can have cd's burned right on to them. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
06-22-2005, 12:45 PM
#20
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 200
Originally posted by Team Chunk:
k i know people are recomending eclips and stuff, but i would say go with clarion, mainly casue i'm a really big fan of thier stuff. and thier new deck's can have cd's burned right on to them. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
k i know people are recomending eclips and stuff, but i would say go with clarion, mainly casue i'm a really big fan of thier stuff. and thier new deck's can have cd's burned right on to them. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
