DSP Vehicle Cabin Size Adjustment and Digital Time Alignment for Dummies?
03-17-2005, 07:39 PM
#1
500 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 756
So my new head unit has these features, and I haven't quite figured them out yet. I understand how to use them, but I don't understand how they work.
Fr'instance; There are two sections, "Position" and "Cabin size". The position was easy to figure out, possible settings are "Left front, Right front, Front, and All". Setting it to the left front seems to be best, the driver's seat in the graphic display highlights, indicating the position is optimized for the driver. And it sounds way better than "All". I'm assuming this sets some sort of delay to make the left speakers seem to fire at the same time as the right speakers, if you're sitting in the driver's seat.
The complicated part is the Cabin Size. Well, in "Easy mode" you just set the cabin size, by choosing "small car, wagon, minivan, van1, van2" etc. But then you switch it back to "Pro Mode" and can manually adjust it all. So I set mine to minivan, then go to the time alignment settings. In there, you can set the "feet" anywhere from 0, to 10.00. It raises in small increments, like about .23 of a foot at a time. If all are at 0, and you raise any of them just one click, 0.23, it changes sound drastically... and there's still a LOT more available. The minivan setting sets my sub at 0 ft, my rear at 0 ft, and my front at 1.00 foot. There's so much more of the range still available, I figure I could be setting things better, if I understood it better.
So my manual says little to nothing. The "feet" thing is what confuses me... sub at 0, rear at 0, front at 1.00 feet? Feet of what? Feet in front of me? Then shouldn't the rears be set at (for example) 4 feet and the sub at 5 feet, since that's about how far they are from my head?
Can anyone explain it better?
Fr'instance; There are two sections, "Position" and "Cabin size". The position was easy to figure out, possible settings are "Left front, Right front, Front, and All". Setting it to the left front seems to be best, the driver's seat in the graphic display highlights, indicating the position is optimized for the driver. And it sounds way better than "All". I'm assuming this sets some sort of delay to make the left speakers seem to fire at the same time as the right speakers, if you're sitting in the driver's seat.
The complicated part is the Cabin Size. Well, in "Easy mode" you just set the cabin size, by choosing "small car, wagon, minivan, van1, van2" etc. But then you switch it back to "Pro Mode" and can manually adjust it all. So I set mine to minivan, then go to the time alignment settings. In there, you can set the "feet" anywhere from 0, to 10.00. It raises in small increments, like about .23 of a foot at a time. If all are at 0, and you raise any of them just one click, 0.23, it changes sound drastically... and there's still a LOT more available. The minivan setting sets my sub at 0 ft, my rear at 0 ft, and my front at 1.00 foot. There's so much more of the range still available, I figure I could be setting things better, if I understood it better.
So my manual says little to nothing. The "feet" thing is what confuses me... sub at 0, rear at 0, front at 1.00 feet? Feet of what? Feet in front of me? Then shouldn't the rears be set at (for example) 4 feet and the sub at 5 feet, since that's about how far they are from my head?
Can anyone explain it better?
No advice for me? Come on... you SQ'ers should have a plethora of information!
03-30-2005, 07:14 PM
#3
Hey Bob you should have got a Pioneer...lol.
If you look at my post for my new deck it has a mic that plugs in. It will then play notes and whatnot and automaticlly adjusts time alignment and eq. Just what every SPLer looks for in a deck.
Thank god it has that mic or I would be asking the same question.lol
If you look at my post for my new deck it has a mic that plugs in. It will then play notes and whatnot and automaticlly adjusts time alignment and eq. Just what every SPLer looks for in a deck.
Thank god it has that mic or I would be asking the same question.lol
03-30-2005, 07:21 PM
#4
Cheddar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 558
I think it's your braided hair and the Uncle Jed icon you have in your sig that scares people away....... j/k.
I'm not sure myself, but since nobody else is helping, I'll just take a guess. I would assume zero is from your seating position that you designated as front left. I believe you then measure the distance between you and the right speaker and put that number into the front settings. The rear you would measure the furthest distance (you and rear right) and put that number in. The sub would be how far your sub would be from you. The deck should then make all the adjustments.
If none of that works, oh well...........
One more thing. The final step would be to do a final adjustment by ear.
I'm not sure myself, but since nobody else is helping, I'll just take a guess. I would assume zero is from your seating position that you designated as front left. I believe you then measure the distance between you and the right speaker and put that number into the front settings. The rear you would measure the furthest distance (you and rear right) and put that number in. The sub would be how far your sub would be from you. The deck should then make all the adjustments.
If none of that works, oh well...........
One more thing. The final step would be to do a final adjustment by ear.
03-31-2005, 05:29 AM
#6
Yeah, it's not like this is a car audio forum where you can ask questions related to car audio you know......... [img]graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]
Grizzz,
Seating position is where the speakers will be aligned to.
Cabin size is just an easy way for the user to set the alignment. It will not be completely accurate but will be a start.
Manual is the way to go. Get out a tape measure and plug in the measurements.
The "feet" is how far the speaker is away from your ears.
Grizzz,
Seating position is where the speakers will be aligned to.
Cabin size is just an easy way for the user to set the alignment. It will not be completely accurate but will be a start.
Manual is the way to go. Get out a tape measure and plug in the measurements.
The "feet" is how far the speaker is away from your ears.
03-31-2005, 05:41 AM
#7
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 870
Sorry...that probably came out kinda blunt. had a day full of Ebay horrors.
I think, while you could just "plug in the numbers, it is always better to go by ear. Most people need to be educated as to what to listen for, and it's a whole lot easier to show them than it is to try to explain.
Once you know what your listening for, it should be easy to get it sweet.
I think, while you could just "plug in the numbers, it is always better to go by ear. Most people need to be educated as to what to listen for, and it's a whole lot easier to show them than it is to try to explain.
Once you know what your listening for, it should be easy to get it sweet.
03-31-2005, 10:38 AM
#8
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 718
isn't there a user manual that could help you with a lot of that stuff? in my alpine deck it had similar features for placement of the speakers to allow for time delays and what not. but i don't really even bother with it, because it's too much to worry about it the music hits my ear a split second after it's supposed to. that's for the real audiophiles.
03-31-2005, 12:02 PM
#9
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 61
Time alignment make a HUGE difference. It make the soundstage expand considerably and have a better separation between instruments and/or voices. It tend to recreate a perfect (in the middle) stereo listening.
How does it work?
By the nature of the beast (vehicule), you will be closer of one speaker than the other(s). That means that the sound coming from the closest speaker from your listening position will arrive at your ear/brain first. That cause a strong perception of hearing the majority of the musical content from only one side (left side for us North American). Equally, at the same level, the speaker closer to you will be louder. Logical no?
Time alignment allow the end user to delay the sound from the closest speaker, one by one and equally to adjust the level of each speaker individually.
An exemple, in my car, my left speaker have a delay of 4.4 microsecond with -1db, my right speaker have a delay of 3.0 microsecond and my sub (I only have two speakers in the front and a sub) have no delay because it is the farthest speaker to adjust.
So, there is a difference of 1.4 microsecond and 1 db between my two front speakers (to compensate for the different distance of both speakers from my listening position) and 4.4 microsecond between my front left and my sub. The mathematic formula to calculate it, is explain in your manual. You will need a mesuring tape and a calculator and voilą.
Hope this help
Steve
[ March 31, 2005, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: lappy ]
How does it work?
By the nature of the beast (vehicule), you will be closer of one speaker than the other(s). That means that the sound coming from the closest speaker from your listening position will arrive at your ear/brain first. That cause a strong perception of hearing the majority of the musical content from only one side (left side for us North American). Equally, at the same level, the speaker closer to you will be louder. Logical no?
Time alignment allow the end user to delay the sound from the closest speaker, one by one and equally to adjust the level of each speaker individually.
An exemple, in my car, my left speaker have a delay of 4.4 microsecond with -1db, my right speaker have a delay of 3.0 microsecond and my sub (I only have two speakers in the front and a sub) have no delay because it is the farthest speaker to adjust.
So, there is a difference of 1.4 microsecond and 1 db between my two front speakers (to compensate for the different distance of both speakers from my listening position) and 4.4 microsecond between my front left and my sub. The mathematic formula to calculate it, is explain in your manual. You will need a mesuring tape and a calculator and voilą.
Hope this help
Steve
[ March 31, 2005, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: lappy ]
03-31-2005, 01:53 PM
#10
TA always needs to be tweaked by ear after the basic numbers are put in.
The same as using an RTA to assist with EQ setting. You can use the RTA to find quick things but in the end you need to tune to your ear.
Although some don't believe in TA (time alignmant, not T&A [img]smile.gif[/img] )I feel it has a place in the industry.
The same as using an RTA to assist with EQ setting. You can use the RTA to find quick things but in the end you need to tune to your ear.
Although some don't believe in TA (time alignmant, not T&A [img]smile.gif[/img] )I feel it has a place in the industry.
