Just to follow-up on my search for Nak equipment I thought I would mention my nightmare with brand new Eclipse (award winning) cassette deck 4502 (5 volt output all preouts/CD controller). My first one they gave me had a terrible spike on power up and down so I returned and they gave me the top-line CD player as a temp unit till my new 4502 came up from Florida - fair enough it was excellent in all regards. So 5 weeks later my new 4502 shows up and I pull my dash apart again and this unit has a wicked spike on powerdown only though. So I put the CD player back in for the meantime and am seriously considering ripping everything apart and replacing it all with Nak cassette deck/ (because I have many serious cassettes recorded off vinyl) - for instance one has Heart's "Magic Man" that puts "Vogue", "Dark Horse" etc. etc. to shame in bass response and all the anologue smoothness to boot!

I would appreciate any comments - because I'm at the end of my rope here.
Thanks
[img]graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

this is not the first i have been reading about the quality going down

Eclipse has a performance guarantee, if it has any problems in the first year its replaced. If it is registered. Then you get 3 three years of warranty. Hum....

Provided it's in warranty keep sending it back eventually you will be intitled to your money back or upgrade to the next model. We do that for the company I work for, and keep customers quite happy.

Yeah, I call Bull**** on the money back scenario. I told my dealer I wanted my money back and he told me to stuff it because it was a special order and he would never be able to resell the Eclipse 4502 unit (being a cassette deck) once it was returned to him (fixed I assume) from Eclipse headquarters.

Anyways I was royally pissed, and spent a couple of hours isolating the spike to the remote line to the EQ and amps. I solved my spike problem by putting a relay in-line on the remote out. But instead of using a constant 12 volt in used the remote line to both 12 volt in and trigger on.

This setup allows the relay to take the spike and gives a split second delay so the spike is all gone by the time the trigger sends power to the amps. (I suppose I should post this on the install forum)

The facts still remain, a new Eclipse head unit with a spike and a no return policy on cassette decks - from my dealer anyway. [img]graemlins/blah.gif[/img]

If I were you I would call Eclipse and complain directly to the distributor for your area.

Explain your problems clearly and calmly.

Explaina lso that as a 'valued' customer, you'll be sure to let all your car audio enthusiast friends know about this, providing that it isnt resolved in a reasonable manner, I mean, their business depends upon word-of-mouth advertising, as they arent some 'big box' company like RF or MTX, dont you think? I think they'll be recpetive.

I think that they will be receptive to such a reasonably explained issue, becuase they would probably like to keep their reputation at the high level they expect.

Also, as they do offer this tremendous warranty plan, you would probably want to mention to them the unwillingness of your shop-dealer, THEIR REPRESENTATIVE, to compromise with you, their valued customer.

I would also mention that you think highly of their products and would not want to end your relationship with their products this way, becuas eif you wanted 'big box crap' you could go to Best Buy tomorrow.


honestly, you'd be surprised where a well placed and well-worded phone call can get you, if you havent tried this already I would highly recommend it.

I didn't say money back from the dealer I meant from the manufacture, I work for HP tech support and it's one of the options usually given now everyone other manufacture is different of course in what they offer for satisfaction.

As well the the threat of " I will go elsewhere and tell all my friends not to buy your product" is a threat not taken they don't care when customers give us that line it's " that's your choice sir we don't force customers to use products there not happy with". They get pissed caues they realize there lil threat got them no where.

Although the turn-on pop was a problem on 1 head unit from eclipse that i knew of, now 2 I didnt find it as much of an issue as you did. I had the problem with my 8443 but i simply put a 12V switch in-line with my sub amp and never had the problem again.

Ur not likely to get your money back from the dealer on a special order item and eclipse will most likely not refund your money. IT is good you fixed the problem, i know eclipse makes awesome stuff and a minute problem like this i think could be overlooked for the quality of stuff that matters like processing etc.

Funny, Chizzer,

But generally speaking, I find that that sort of complaint works quite well, providing it is done int he proper way.

A nice letter to Eclipse HQ outlining the problem, as well as explaining that as a customer you feel you are being treated poorly, as well as the 'threat' of making sure your peers know of the way you were treated, etc, and outlining how you intend to file a complaint with the BBB or what have you regarding the company's representative tends to work quite well.

Most companies, especially '-phile' companies like Eclipse, etc, in any industry, should realize by now that to compete with the FS/BB type brands and stores, they have to provide customer service, first, and quality, second.


Obviously not all companies care, but the good ones do.

Meh, thats just my experience, though

Every company cares but if your a prick about it then they will basically say screw you. But if your polite about it then yes you can get farther wether it's money back, upgrade to higher model etc etc they will try to do more to please you.

Doug is right about that, as a retailer I want to look after my customers, but if the customer comes in to my store with a full head of steam and is not respectful, I will ask them one time only to be respectful and we can get the problem solved. The second time I recommend to them loud enough for anyone to hear that I highly recommend that they beat me to the front door. I had to do this just a couple of weeks back actually and for those of you able to view the void would know the entire story. Rob 1 - customer 0. It's not that I did not want to help the customer but the customer also has to play by the rules.

Even the big guys have policies that must be abided to. Just the other day I was in the local Ford dealer at the parts counter and the sign there clearly stated "No returns on special order parts". If you specially ordered a part and you ordered the wrong or incorrect part, why should the dealer get stuck with it and hope to sell it someday to someone else? That said, if the cd player did have a flaw they are obligated to get it serviced by Eclipse as dictated by the rules that govern how repairs work. Westec touched on this.

Now it is unfortunate that things don't happen the instant you need them to but the rules are in place for a reason. If this was an Eclipse product, it should have been dealer installed for the warranty to be valid. The onus would have then been on the dealer to find and correct the problem. Who installed the product originally?

I'm not trying to hammer a nail in the coffin either dude, just trying to give you a retailers perspective from the outside looking in.

[ December 03, 2004, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: MR2NR ]

It's funny, I work for the Eclipse Distributor, I deal with the "valued customers"...a well worded phone can go along way. Just like Rob said, if your respectful and willing to work with us...we'll work it out. Next time call me...

See, there ya go

and as I stated initially, its all about being a good guy and polite....you always cattch more flies with honey (not to call westec a fly, hahah)

See, this I don't agree with. I know it's the companies covering their ass, but some of us can't afford the $50+ per hour that shops charge.

And if we all had our equipment installed by the dealer the whole industry would go under because the money is just not there and half the fun of new gear is installing it on your own.

Just because you don't agree with how a manufacturer sets it's warranty policies does not mean it is right or wrong. Warranty is a fact of life no matter what. If you buy a new car, it has say a 5 year warranty on it from the manufacturer. If you do something to void this warranty, why should the manufacturer be left holding the bag? Maybe the companies that we retailers deal with spend huge dinnero training the installers and salespeople to do things in such and such a way. I have had suppliers fly me to Toronto for training before, many a trip to Hongcouver for training etc. Do you think that with all my years in this industry I did not learn something out of it every single time? What's the point in being a doctor if you don't have to go to school and continually upgrade your knowledge.
A business is in business to make money, this is known fact. A business like mine employs people to install stereos. If you as the customer who are reading this, buys something and blows it upon self installation, why on earth should the manufacturer warranty it for you? [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img] Now for some of the readers they are more than qualified to install their own gear, and I do agree with you that it is fun as well, how do you think I got started. That said after sitting on the other side of the fence for 18 years, how many blown stereo's and customers vehicles do you think that I have had to fix in the last 18 years as well. 99% of the time if the product has a warranty, follow the rules associated to it,otherwise if things do go sideways on you, don't expect to get the level of service that you expect from them vs. your neighbour that did play by the rules.

Personally I don't care who installs the equipment, I as a dealer can offer superior warranties on my equipment if it is dealer installed. Eclipse for example is 1 year parts labour if you install, 3 years parts and labour if I install it + if it is a head of any type, free replacement in the first year if it is stolen. Add to this, replacement if the unit is DOA.
So many times in my career I have had to send equipment back for service that was self installed and one day old. So many times the customer was pissed off at me, but I had to play by the rules as well. How many of these customers buy the extended warranties? Lots of them do, if they buy the right product and pay for the labour to install it, no extra warranty is needed to be purchased. MB Quart, 3 year dealer installed, one year self installed. What's the chance in 3 years that you might have a speaker fail? Pretty darn good for most people who buy car audio. This is when I as a retailer take pride in saying, no problem sir, it is still under warranty.

[ December 05, 2004, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: MR2NR ]

[quote]Originally posted by Brandon:

Quote:

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Originally posted by MR2NR:
[qb]
And if we all had our equipment installed by the dealer the whole industry would go under because the money is just not there and half the fun of new gear is installing it on your own.

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also if you had dealers to install it there would also be less warranty returns


lets face it any macho man knows how to install


i had one of them yesterday he insisted he knew how to intall
funny thing is his radio didn't work and he was at my shop for me to fix it for him
and he insisted he knew how to install

made me ask myself why he was there if he already knew

The majority of us here know how to properly install our own equipment. However, the majority of people who buy car audio products have no ****ing clue as to what the **** they're doing. I've seen 1001 mistakes that have either resulted in a damaged product or could have very easilty ended in that result. Most of the time, they're too ignorant or proud to admit that they ****ed up and insist that it was faulty before they installed it. The sad fact is that most of the time, it does get replaced or fixed under warranty.

This pisses me off to no end because, in the end, everyone pays for everyone else's mistakes. Every warranty return costs the manfacturer money, which in turns gets passed onto the dealer, who, in turn, passes it onto the customer. So, really, it RAISES prices for everyone. Personally, I'd like to save that $50 or so that covers the cost of idiocy. Morons who damage their equipment through ignorance (or, even worse, on purpose) and expect to get their product warrantied should be paying for at least some of the cost.

Just my opinion ...