So here's a little ethical question I would some input on.

Let's say that a company gives a competitor a prototype amplifier. It's so new there is no owners manual or waranty card. They just mail it to him in a brown box.

The competitor installs the amplifier, goes to all sorts of shows and brags incessantly about the quality and performance of the product, fulfilling his contractual obligations to the manufacturer. He also wins several major events using their product, and wears their shirt on stage, gets in a magazine and so on...

The competitor is driving down the road some time later, listening to music and the amplifier suddenly bursts into flames. The driver pulls over and jumps from his car, yanks the chrome fire extinguisher from his passenger side window pillar (am I painting a picture for you?) and puts out the now somewhat serious fire.

Nobody is hurt, but the car is severely damaged to the tune of, let's say, $10,000.

I know, I know, that little fire extinguisher couldn't put out the fire, but forget about that, that's not what I am asking.

The question is: What would you do?

Considerations:
-The owner of the car did absolutely nothing wrong.
-There is a chance that the vehciles owners insurance company will not repair the car because the item that started the fire was aftermarket.
-All the 'blame' for the accident rests on the fact that the amplifier caught fire. It was installed perfectly and performed well for a long time.

Before you go off searching the Internet, this was fabricated from a discussion I was having with some friends at a party, the context has been changed to something that CCA members can relate to.

So what's the question [img]tongue.gif[/img]

If the question is what would I do as the manufacturer of the amp, I would do the right thing. I would pay to repair the vehicle and make sure that everything is taken care of to the satisfaction of the competitor.

If I was the competitor I would politely request the manufacturer to do what's right.

In this day of computers, it would be too easy for the competitor to whip out his digital camera and ruin that companies rep in about three days of posting on CCA, Carsound, and Term Pro.


Here is another "hypothetical question" what if you installed some used equipment in a 1995 Dodge Ram. You install a head unit, and amp with a sub. The amp wiring is already ran from the previous owner of the truck. You use a harness on the deck. You get a call two days later from the frantic customer that her truck is in the shop with the brake lights not working. You drive down there and see that the stealership has the ENTIRE interior removed including the dash. They say the labour is at $1700 so far to fix a shorted brake light wire. They show you where the sill screw went through the factory brake wire that was unwrapped from it's harness beside some aftermarket speaker wires you did not add under the sill you did not remove. The woman is crying because she just bought the truck three days ago, what do you do?

^^^^

Tell her to fuuck off and have the CSM pay the damage claim [img]smile.gif[/img]

Make sure you get her to sign the release !!

That's what I did, I talked the dealership down to $1200 (it was outrageous what they were doing). Paid the claim and let her know that she will not be getting a deal like that ever again in her life.

That was the question DW.. What should be done on both parts..

Tim, whatdya think? Same thing?

I would have first made sure that the manufacturer would assume any and all risk with a untested and unproven piece of equipment. Always look out for number 1. It is unfortunate that this must be the case but it is now a necessary evil, there are too many ways to get screwed, like Dereck listed above.
If the manufacturer is reputable and fault can be verified to lie within the design of the amplifier AND it was being used within it's operating design, the onus should be on the manufacturer. All products that come to market have to be tested, if the manufacturer chose a competitor to test this equipment instead of inhouse, they must also be responsible for its potential downfalls as well as successes. A manufacturer also has insurance for little things that can happen, just like this. I too would ask the manufacturer to do what is correct.

Well in the world of big box, we pay out so many damage claims that are not even our fault and we prove they aren't our fault but if the customer calls head office or screams loud enough we pay............................we paid a $300 cleaning bill once cause the customer bought some carpet cleaning solution and it fell over on his seat on the way home and it discolored his seat...................

Dave.....in your example I don't think the manufacturer would cover it or even get involved in it cause they have no way of knowing if it was the product or the install................

If it was the product I would want bullet proof proof that it was the product before I would pay, but as the consumer I would push and push, there is nothing to lose cause they probably won't get much..............unfortunatly.........

our shop policy is that we will not install an amp with existing cables unless they were originally installed by us, period, no exceptions, if the customer doesnt like that policy, tough, there are many other shops to go to who will gladly take the responsibility for other peoples wiring skills, or lack there of

Thanks guys...

What a coincidence, that is our new policy as well!

Along those lines, you guys would have cried if you saw the number of customers the infamous Ralph Bennedetti used to turn away. I used to drop by the shop about every other month and no matter what time I was there, he'd be sending someone down the road.

He wouldn't touch any products he didn't sell.. It was hilarious.. but saved him a lot of headaches.

So, let's change the scenario around a bit and eliviate the potential that the problem was related to the installation. Say the problem is that a 'performance suspension part' was installed on a car and a weld failed, causing the car to spin out and crash. Whadya think now?

same thing, you should stand by those who stand by you. This is even more extreme because that is definately provable as a defect in the product unlike the car audio example which while easy to determine most people treat failures like that like voodoo or something.

Not a written shop policy but we usually replace all wiring unless there is a component currently running in it's spot.

I sort of agree with Dereck, if the part was properly installed to manufacturers specs, meaning all mounting bolts torqued on properly, no problems with clearance and the part was the right one for the right vehicle and install is no longer part of the picture, then there is two possibilities, which one however must be found out.
One is that the part failed due to a design flaw or mechanical failure while in use, the manufacturer is on the hook. Two is the part was being used beyond it's design apllication, again the part was properly installed, just used improperly, this onus is now on the user. Good questions Dave.

The suspsension thing is much like the Ford Explorer(??) with the questionable tires.

The only answer lies with Fight Club:

^ That was classic.

As a consumer, nothing is my fault. Remember that :D

Sadly, in this day and age, %99 of the time, the mighty buck far outweighs ethics.

Wade, you are right man, it's true that it comes down to the perverbial dollar. But the first point that DWVW made involving the incredible speed at which a company can be 100% discredited thanks to digital camera's and the Internet is stunning. And that is the fear that big companies (and small) have to deal with.

I have to admit that any decision of an ethical nature I make comes down to one thing -- how would I explain it to my daugthers and what will they think of me for doing what I did..... and could I live with them doing the same thing

^^^

Xactly. Do the right thing.

What comes around goes around. Things A-L-W-A-Y-S balance out in nature. I've seen it way too many times. Make sure you're always able to look someone in the eye and stand behind whatever you said and what you did.

Hmm.. A good point.. Guilt is a marvelous tool as well...

we had the Phoenix gold mazda protoge demo car go thru a fence. The car was parked on a street(steep street) and the parkling brake was engaged and the car was in gear, non the less it went down the hill on its own(the driver of the car was in whistler at the time, the car was at metro town) the car rolled thru a fence, little damage to the car but the fence is now see thru. The manuf(dist) had to take full responsibility, even thought the car had insurrance and the driver was not responsible. maybe the mazda was at fault, maybe some one hit it and it forced a roll. either way the right thing was done and the house owner has a new fence.

I test alot of prototype gear for my company. Remote starters and alarms mostly, if our unit causes damage to a vechile, for example a starter motor, you can "prove" it was the starter we fix it. Prove, for example, a fused starter relay in the brain. It does happen, sometimes... :D

Well, it was a prototype, not a production line unit.
Was the show tour over? or was the product destined to be returned to the manufacturer before the incident? if so, why was it left in the car and not changed ?
If the product was supposed to stay in the car, I'd say both parties should pay, after all, it was installed with the knowledge that it is not a production line unit, but a prototype.
Just trying to be fair about this, should it ever get to court, it would be interesting to find out how the ruling went. After all consumers and shopkeepers alike have rights and obligations.

[ June 28, 2004, 02:41 AM: Message edited by: Eli47 ]