Has to be asked sooner or later
05-18-2004, 02:23 AM
#1
500 Watt CAFz'r
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Ok guys, I want to hear everyones honest opinion:
What do you think of online car audio sales and please give your reasoning.
What do you think of online car audio sales and please give your reasoning.
05-18-2004, 03:44 AM
#2
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,357
regulated is fine, profit margain is not importent but as long as you don't take your lower costs into effect and kill the independents by lowering your prices to levels that dealers can not compete at.< Its already a tough market.. As far as ebays concerned I think it has killed our market< canada the most, how many times a day does a dealer hear" I can get it on ebay for"
I think that the internet if PROPERLY regulated is a huge untapped resourse, however at this time I would not be inclined to lend my products to the online stores....warrenty is another issue people don't think about much, very hard to track if its sold on the net, not going to argue this point.
Good luck jon, and thanks for giving back to the sport... whens the neon picts comming out [img]smile.gif[/img]
I think that the internet if PROPERLY regulated is a huge untapped resourse, however at this time I would not be inclined to lend my products to the online stores....warrenty is another issue people don't think about much, very hard to track if its sold on the net, not going to argue this point.
Good luck jon, and thanks for giving back to the sport... whens the neon picts comming out [img]smile.gif[/img]
05-18-2004, 07:32 AM
#3
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Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 2,406
I think it is slowly killing the industry with the cheap prices and no service.
Customer's can't hear or see what they are buying so they are buying only on price which can lead to alot of pissed off people when they buy crap.
People need to and should be able to get a CD, go into a store and make a informed decision based on listening and seeing the product.
Online sales and the internet in general I think has made the general car audio consumer a little dumber then they were 10 years ago....................10 years ago you had to go into a store and see the product and learn about the product, now it's all about online opinions and keyboards commando's that don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground put spout their "knowledge" like it is the gospil truth and someone always believes them, then those people pass on that bull$hit knowledge and so on and so on...............
[ May 18, 2004, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Tim Baillie. ]
Customer's can't hear or see what they are buying so they are buying only on price which can lead to alot of pissed off people when they buy crap.
People need to and should be able to get a CD, go into a store and make a informed decision based on listening and seeing the product.
Online sales and the internet in general I think has made the general car audio consumer a little dumber then they were 10 years ago....................10 years ago you had to go into a store and see the product and learn about the product, now it's all about online opinions and keyboards commando's that don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground put spout their "knowledge" like it is the gospil truth and someone always believes them, then those people pass on that bull$hit knowledge and so on and so on...............
[ May 18, 2004, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Tim Baillie. ]
05-18-2004, 09:37 AM
#4
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Okay, here I go. I have no problem with places like Sounddomain, or GCA. I do have a problem with fly by night shops that lie to people about warranty etc. Most of them are in business to get beer money for the weekend it seems. Just look at that sound deadening company that folded. Everyone thought they were in it for the long haul. Sorry about their customers bad luck. I laubgh to myself every time I read a post about getting ripped off over the net. But it seems people never learn. If you want to buy over the net fine, but don't waste any brick and mortar stores time asking questions, getting demos, or otherwise checking out product. I hear from people like Rob Hephner on Carsound that you should still spend time and educate these people to try and convert them but you aren't going to buy the cow when the milk is free.
Another thing that I thought of was alot of people say "If you don't know how to install, then yes you should go through brick and mortar, but I will do it myself and if I have any trouble I can always ask on the net how to do it." I think we as installers are starting to be more responsible for some of the decline. I have no problem sharing my knowledge with other's as far as general knowledge, but I am trying to limit what I tell people on the boards about my (limited) fabrication skills. I still tell other people ini the industry because it will help it grow overall. But as for telling some guy how to make something step by step, I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot. I would wonder what would happen if all installers took down any tutorials they have on the net, and stopped answering questions for a month? Would there be big lineups for custom work again? I mean you ask where all the big shop sponsored comp teams of the 80's and early 90's went? Well they no longer have advantages as far as knowledge goes so they quit, they no longer have thriving custom businesses so they quit competing.
Another thing that I thought of was alot of people say "If you don't know how to install, then yes you should go through brick and mortar, but I will do it myself and if I have any trouble I can always ask on the net how to do it." I think we as installers are starting to be more responsible for some of the decline. I have no problem sharing my knowledge with other's as far as general knowledge, but I am trying to limit what I tell people on the boards about my (limited) fabrication skills. I still tell other people ini the industry because it will help it grow overall. But as for telling some guy how to make something step by step, I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot. I would wonder what would happen if all installers took down any tutorials they have on the net, and stopped answering questions for a month? Would there be big lineups for custom work again? I mean you ask where all the big shop sponsored comp teams of the 80's and early 90's went? Well they no longer have advantages as far as knowledge goes so they quit, they no longer have thriving custom businesses so they quit competing.
05-18-2004, 09:44 AM
#5
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I agree with the above statements in general terms, but each question is of course constrained by lots of exclusions.
Online presences like that Indo Audio crap of course need to be eliminated, and thanks to the efforts of the manufacturers, will be.
In terms of specific examples, I really like the way Genuine Canadian is set up. Jon, you provide good quality products and do your best to support your customers as much as possible. Yes, there is still the problem with waranty issues, but that is a conscious decision the purchaser makes and understands. Your pricing is fair as well, from what I can tell (I don't look at prices).
In the US, Crutchfield appears to be quite succesfull as well, and from what I know of them, also offer good tech support.
What I fear is some punk kid getting a hold of a line and pawning it off with no experience or background.
Tim is so right about the Keyboard Comando thing, and internet forums are havens for idiots (both consumer and in the indsutry) to make fools of themselves.
Online presences like that Indo Audio crap of course need to be eliminated, and thanks to the efforts of the manufacturers, will be.
In terms of specific examples, I really like the way Genuine Canadian is set up. Jon, you provide good quality products and do your best to support your customers as much as possible. Yes, there is still the problem with waranty issues, but that is a conscious decision the purchaser makes and understands. Your pricing is fair as well, from what I can tell (I don't look at prices).
In the US, Crutchfield appears to be quite succesfull as well, and from what I know of them, also offer good tech support.
What I fear is some punk kid getting a hold of a line and pawning it off with no experience or background.
Tim is so right about the Keyboard Comando thing, and internet forums are havens for idiots (both consumer and in the indsutry) to make fools of themselves.
05-18-2004, 11:01 AM
#6
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 548
Online sales = boo-urns.
Although,
once most of these people get burned they will return to b&m stores. Unless they are real morons, then they will just post on a site like this, about how they got ripped off, again.
"good sir, you are a dummy"
I have no problems with the companies that aren't available in regular stores selling direct.
Why do kids want me to price match e-bay? You can see,hear and feel the product in my store, when you hand over your money you always get the product and if it breaks I don't tell you to take a hike. Isn't that worth a couple of $?
Although,
once most of these people get burned they will return to b&m stores. Unless they are real morons, then they will just post on a site like this, about how they got ripped off, again.
"good sir, you are a dummy"
I have no problems with the companies that aren't available in regular stores selling direct.
Why do kids want me to price match e-bay? You can see,hear and feel the product in my store, when you hand over your money you always get the product and if it breaks I don't tell you to take a hike. Isn't that worth a couple of $?
05-18-2004, 11:27 AM
#7
I don't think I can start without wanting to hit someone......no one within reach right now, damn. I think that the net needs to be way better policed. If the manufacturer has made a bold statement to do his part and they do not follow through, you can be guarandamnteed that I will follow through and protect the investment that I have in my stores. I did not invest my time into building my stores and building the lines carried and abide by a dealer agreement and then see my competitor as an authorized or unauthorized dealer be allowed to blatantly break the dealer agreement without fear of recourse from the manufacturer.
I have had one issue with a local wholesaler in the last year. They have some alright equipment and some really **** poor crap as well. The problem here was they "ordered too much stock" and thus decided to open a storefront with it last Christmas. Are they a wholesaler or a retailer? They were retailing the product at what I had to pay for it at wholesale. Do you think that this upset the local marketplace? Damn straight it did. I will use them if I have to, only out of convenience as they are in the same city as one of my stores but otherwise I will order from a long established and helpful company like Staub or DLC.
As far as the net goes, Tim is bang on with the keyboard commando comment, there are too many "keyboard experts" that are doing serious damage to the industry. Dereck as well made a good point about limiting the info that we give so freely. I don't mind helping people out as long as I am not taking business away from someone I know or respect in this industry, that said though, I will help take it away from the boneheads that do not deserve the business in the first place. There happens to be lots of these people, mainly in the US where is does not affect us. At any point in time if I am asked about an e-tailer my response is always to buy it at a local retailer and no the e-tailer.
Directly with my lines that I carry and the dealer agreements that must be abided to, the manufacturer needs to be put on notice that they are doing a **** poor job of enforcing the e-tailer scourge. I don't care if it is a major B&M store or an unauthorized e-tailer, if the dealer agreement is broken and is allowed to be continually broken, the manufacturer needs to be taken to task on it. Some of it lies with the reponseable ownership of the stores, I am not going to go out and break my dealer agreements and advertise all over the net. However my competition will and some of them (mainly in the US) do not give a rat's a$$ because they know that the chances of a manufacturer taking them to task is slim to none. The unauthorized e-tailer is killing this industry, make no doubts about it. Someone needs to step up and take the first step and it might just be me.
[ May 18, 2004, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: MR2NR ]
I have had one issue with a local wholesaler in the last year. They have some alright equipment and some really **** poor crap as well. The problem here was they "ordered too much stock" and thus decided to open a storefront with it last Christmas. Are they a wholesaler or a retailer? They were retailing the product at what I had to pay for it at wholesale. Do you think that this upset the local marketplace? Damn straight it did. I will use them if I have to, only out of convenience as they are in the same city as one of my stores but otherwise I will order from a long established and helpful company like Staub or DLC.
As far as the net goes, Tim is bang on with the keyboard commando comment, there are too many "keyboard experts" that are doing serious damage to the industry. Dereck as well made a good point about limiting the info that we give so freely. I don't mind helping people out as long as I am not taking business away from someone I know or respect in this industry, that said though, I will help take it away from the boneheads that do not deserve the business in the first place. There happens to be lots of these people, mainly in the US where is does not affect us. At any point in time if I am asked about an e-tailer my response is always to buy it at a local retailer and no the e-tailer.
Directly with my lines that I carry and the dealer agreements that must be abided to, the manufacturer needs to be put on notice that they are doing a **** poor job of enforcing the e-tailer scourge. I don't care if it is a major B&M store or an unauthorized e-tailer, if the dealer agreement is broken and is allowed to be continually broken, the manufacturer needs to be taken to task on it. Some of it lies with the reponseable ownership of the stores, I am not going to go out and break my dealer agreements and advertise all over the net. However my competition will and some of them (mainly in the US) do not give a rat's a$$ because they know that the chances of a manufacturer taking them to task is slim to none. The unauthorized e-tailer is killing this industry, make no doubts about it. Someone needs to step up and take the first step and it might just be me.
[ May 18, 2004, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: MR2NR ]
05-18-2004, 02:57 PM
#8
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Join Date: May 2000
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The scarey thing about keyboard commando's is that they are stupid for one thing, but they seem to gain credibility from other stupid people.........................this forum and every other forum has a whole group of "experts" that are beyond stupid....................
So many people give advice and make it sound like it is "the law".............someone asks me how to do something, I'll share the info cause I "need" to give back as I gained that knowledge somewhere whether it's trial and error or someone else's idea.............either way it isn't the ONLY way to do it and so many of these commando's think their knowledge is the only way to do it and will argue to the death that their way is better.....................some like ported, some like sealed.........no one is right..............I like to sand my fiberglass our smooth when I do a stretch........some like to lather it up with rage gold and smooth it out that way...............neither is right............
Some of these commando's have never done anything except build a few cars years ago for family and friends but now they think they are the greatest cause they can read a few books or something.............
People think that if you have a million posts on a forum and they see your name all the time then you must know something..................
I can only imagine how much money people spend following these people's advice...........and how much damage they do to their cars and gear..........................it's scarey
So many people give advice and make it sound like it is "the law".............someone asks me how to do something, I'll share the info cause I "need" to give back as I gained that knowledge somewhere whether it's trial and error or someone else's idea.............either way it isn't the ONLY way to do it and so many of these commando's think their knowledge is the only way to do it and will argue to the death that their way is better.....................some like ported, some like sealed.........no one is right..............I like to sand my fiberglass our smooth when I do a stretch........some like to lather it up with rage gold and smooth it out that way...............neither is right............
Some of these commando's have never done anything except build a few cars years ago for family and friends but now they think they are the greatest cause they can read a few books or something.............
People think that if you have a million posts on a forum and they see your name all the time then you must know something..................
I can only imagine how much money people spend following these people's advice...........and how much damage they do to their cars and gear..........................it's scarey
05-18-2004, 04:30 PM
#9
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Originally posted by Tim Baillie.:
Some of these commando's have never done anything except build a few cars years ago for family and friends but now they think they are the greatest cause they can read a few books or something.............
People think that if you have a million posts on a forum and they see your name all the time then you must know something..................
Some of these commando's have never done anything except build a few cars years ago for family and friends but now they think they are the greatest cause they can read a few books or something.............
People think that if you have a million posts on a forum and they see your name all the time then you must know something..................
No really... I do - just ask
Thus, I will agree [img]tongue.gif[/img]
05-18-2004, 05:50 PM
#10
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 2,406
^^^
Oh really.........ears are burning huh [img]smile.gif[/img]
Actually I had a putz on Carsound named lakersfan1 in mind when I wrote it, but if you say the shoe fits you then...............
Oh really.........ears are burning huh [img]smile.gif[/img]
Actually I had a putz on Carsound named lakersfan1 in mind when I wrote it, but if you say the shoe fits you then...............
