kicker vs alpine setup
 

Ok I am looking at either 3 10" alpine type r's or 2 12" kicker l7's. Both will be 1500 rms and both will be run off 1800 rms. Either way they will be put in a custom box to specs and ported up through rear deck in genesis coupe. I am leaning towards the 3 type r's. Some opinions to help me make up my mind would be great. Thanks in advance.

With 3 10's there's more to go wrong. The ohm load for 3 subs could be 1.33 or 2.66 ohms, you won't get the full power but they're 500wrms anyways so 1800W is a good start if they're wired to 1.33 ohms. 2 12" L7s will get way louder. There's not enough cone area for the 3 10's to make a difference (226 vs. 235.5) in volume and Type-R's kinda suck, they have low efficiency. If you can, point 2 12's and the port forewards into the cabin, if the rear seats fold. 4.5-5 cubes @ 35hz for the L7s would be good for daily. There are better buys than an L7, take a look at Ficaraudio.com's BL 12". A BL 18" ($324+options+shipping) on 1000W would be better than 2 12's on 2000W. You'd need a minimum of 6 cf3 after displacements for an 18, how much space can you give up?

Well the 3 10's would be dual 2 so would be 1.33 ohms. I have a hifonics brutus 2006d, 1ohm stable amp that says 2000rms but most people say around 1700 - 1800 rms. Do you think that running it at 1.33 ohms would make a big difference in watts? I never really thought about the kickers having more cone area. I just went by 3 10's is 30 inches and 2 12's is 24 inches. I forgot that square subs have 20% more. And I think you are right about not being efficient as the sensitivity on the r's are 83 db 1w/1m. Still a tough call but your input helps. Oh I wanted to ask you why you say put the port forward. You think that would be better then through the deck facing up against the back window?. It is a small car and when I tried putting the subs I have now with the ports forward the air on the back of my neck was annoying.

What vehicle? 1.33 ohms makes a 2000W amp put out around 1340W (2000*.33), I'm not completely sure on that, but less than 2000. The 10's have more cone area, it's just nearly the same as 2 12's so it's not something to consider. To calculate cone area you take it's radius (half of the total diameter) multipled by itself multiplied by pie (3.14) = 12/2 = 6*6 = 36*3.14 = 113.04 cone area for a 12". 83db vs 87 is a lot. Facing everything forewards is better IF you seal the cabin from the trunk with the subs and port in view when the seats are folded down (use particle board). When sound waves hit the back of the trunk they bounce back into the cabin hitting other waves which cancel eachother out. When a wave has more space to develop it can get lower which is why most subs sound better facing the rear because lower frequencies are louder to the ear and travel farther. If you seal it off it's like the cabin becomes the box and the actual box is an exterior wall. Have you ever put your head in the trunk when the bass hits? It's quite a bit louder. If you don't like air hitting your neck, wear a hoodie lol. Have you heard a system that sucks the air out of your lungs? That's annoying. You could always put the port on the passenger side.


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Don't use a second port length because it gets screwy with it.

I am running 3 type r 10's off of a fosgate 25 to life, and it hits stupid hard. I like it, it goes low enough for my liking too.

I've heard R's in all kinds of noob setups:

2 ported 12's @ 42hz on 2400W @ 2ohm in a Cavy trunk
2 ported 12's @ 38hz on 6000W @ ?ohm in a Cavy trunk
(blew them 3 times, then bought Type-X's, very loud!)
2 ported 12's @ 40hz on 1500W @ 1ohm in an old body Cavy trunk
2 ported 10's @ 35hz on 1000W @ 1ohm in a Sundance trunk
2 ported 10's in a bandpass @ ?hz on 1200W @ ?ohm in a Sunfire trunk
2 ported 12's @ 40hz on 600W @ 1ohm in an MX6 trunk
2 ported 12's @ 36hz on 750W @ 1ohm on the backseat of a dodge ram 2500 4dr
2 sealed 15's in 5 cubes on 2000W @ ?ohm in a chevy 1500 ext cab (loudest)

A few of those were Alpine boxes and they completely sucked.

Still, none of them were louder or sounded better than my 05 RE XXX 12 in 2.2 cubes @ 36hz on 1500W, not including Type-X's on 6k, or 2 15's < 30hz. None of them were bad unless they were in an Alpine box. I've heard 2 ported 12" L7s on 1500W in a trunk and it was really loud, much more than Type-R's.

Do you want SQ, SPL, or a 50/50 mix? L7s will have more output, and Type-R's will most likely sound better.

For someone who's from hamilton, you sure do know alot of gino's. And also have the best memory known to man.

IMO you don't have the space to support either setup. If Alpine and Kicker are the two brands, I would consider a single 12L7 in 3cuft tuned to 35hz.

x2

Kicker products for some reason require a large amount of cubic footage

No ginos. That was from 2002-2005, 5 of those setups were my friends. Everybody had Type-R's back then. I remember everything I care about (Sagittarius).

Well first off thanks rbgnwa45 for the info on cone area. That is good to know. You asked earlier what car it was in and it's a genesis coupe. Dukk says that I don't have to cubes for what I want. I can get a 3.5 cube box in that trunk max. The kickers would need 1.75 each so 3.5 for both at a min volume for ported and that is what I can fit. Mind you If I take into consideration of the sub and port displacement it would be a bit smaller. Would this not work. At first I was leaning towards 3 alpine 10's and now I think I might go 2 12" Kickers. Man that would pound hard in that little car. Still a tough desision. I have 2 10" re audios in there now and they hit hard but I am a bass fiend and want more. I want to make a 3.5 cube box and load that sucker with something that will hit me in the chest hard. Porting up through the rear deck is my only option as there won't be enough room on the front of the box to port it forward. Check out my vid. It might help you guys to help me decide. Oh and I want spl more than sq but don't want to tune as high as my cars resonant frequency. Mabye 35-40 hz or so.

3.5 cube box, I would go to one sub like a monster Digital Designs and give it the power it needs. The "small box" is the marginal amount of airspace for "passable" bass response and not "ideal" or "extended" bass response. If you are after ideal response or are trying to rip the bra off of your passenger, you are looking at the equation wrong. Look at the space you have available, then choose a sub(s) for that application and finally the amp to power it.

the amp I will be using is the one in the vid ( hifonics bxi2006d ) and yes I do want to rip of her bra but not with bass LOL. The bass is foreplay. So what are you saying? Go with a big 18 or what? I have an re audio sx 18 sitting in front of me but the specs require a box that is at least 5 cubes. You are right I have to work with the box size that I can fit in there which is 3.5 cubes. So I thought 2 12's or 3 10's. Even 1 15 would be to much air space would it not. Mabye put 1 18 in sealed box. I don't know.

How about 3 10 inch kicker l5's? Now that might just do the trick.

BTL 15 & 2500-3000W amp @ 35hz.

I think everyone that is on the kicker bandwagon is forgetting to tell this nice gentleman that kicker coils are about as fragile as a 90 year old womans bones. Go with the R's

I'm in with the comments about "More to go wrong with 3 10's" ...
Plus I think the 2 12's you've chosen better match what you're going to throw at them ...

And fragile coils? Never heard that one before ...
I pound on Kicker daily ... nothing has happened. Guess I'm lucky :p

Ok, I think I have made my desision. 3 10" Kicker L5's. The last guy said though that kicker coils aren't up to snuff. I hope he is wrong cause I believe this will be my setup as I can get these subs for 500 shipped. Will run off about 1700 rms but will also be at 1.33 ohms which will probably bring down the power a little to say 1500 or so. So the kickers are 450 each x 3 would be 1350 so pretty decent match up there I think. The only thing now is that I sat down and figured that the box I will biuld will be 3.25 cubes after magnet displacement. The kickers call for 1.25 per min so that is 3.75. Do you think I could get away with this size box if its ported and what frequency to port to. If not than I will make a 3.25 sealed and go with that. And one more thing. Would I lose a bit of db in that sealed box compared to ported? Thanks guys for all your input. I can't wait to start building this thing. woooooooohoooooo.

One more thing. What would you chose? 2 12" kicker l7 ported or 3 10" kicker l5 sealed?

I think other users will weigh in on the type of port you might need for 3 subs, but it depends on what you're after ...
3 10's, you could definitely do a crazy sealed application (both showy and functional) but then again, if it's the output you're after as well, then maybe ported is your answer.

I'm not the expert on this one ...

(Oh and by the way, I have 2 12" L5's and I broke the box, before I broke the coils ... so like I said, that isn't something I've EVER experienced)

Are your l5's ported? Do you like the " hit " factor of those subs? I can't believe you broke the box. Where did it break? thats awesome in a bad way, and ya that would look fricken awesome to have 3 10's in that car wouldn't it. I just need to find out if I can get away with a ported box that is slightly smaller than specs and would it pound harder than a sealed at specs? Tough question I know but I am giong to spend about 500 on subs and 100 on building the box and not to mention the time to make the box ( although it will be fun ) and I want to get this right as it will be my last set of subs for a long time and I wan't to be happy with it.

4 L5 10's sealed.

You can use the smaller box...just add 1 pound of polyfill per cubic foot and you'll get a virtual volume of about 20-25% larger. The portd box will hit a lot harder and get much louder, but to be honest a sealed application will get more than loud enough and does require significantly less space.

I forgot about polyfill. I heard though that is doesn't work for a ported box and to only use on sealed boxes. Is that true? I think that might be my answer. So 3 10" l5's in a 3.25 ported box with poly. Thanks.

Well you must not spend much time on the internet. Personally ive been through 3 L5s, 2 L7s, running rms power and they all the bed, change to DD, Alpine and never had another coil issue ever. Plus working for a place that sold Alpine and Kicker there was 4 kickers coming back with cooked coils for every 1 Alpine. Never had been impressed with Kicker subs.

Well I definitley want my subs to last a long time. What ever I decide, I will do it soon and post the build project. Thanks everyone for your input. It definitley helped my alot!

Maybe you should build the box better next time :dunno:

Ya how can I build a box that won't break? I mean I know I should use 3/4 mdf and possibly 1 inch for the face but what about screws and glue? ie spacing for screws and length and amount and type of glue.

I heard glue is stronger than screws and you can take them out after it's done and it won't break.

read this:

http://www.audiojunkies.com/blog/1348/ultimate-polyfill-subwoofer-enclosure-resource

I've used it many times over the last 25 years in ported enclosures with similar results to the article.

Someone on this site suggested to check out fi audio. I did and I am interested in the ssd 12. It is decent price. I am just wondering what people think of fi and what the heck is bp power optoin and should I get it.

I just use normal wood glue and brad nails, and usually a double baffle so I can flush mount the subs. You shouldn't have to worry about bracing if you're only using 2 10s or 12s.

What do you mean by double baffle? Is that like taking a router to the sub cut out? I think that I will just use wood glue and 1.5 inch screws every 6 inches or so. That should be fine I figure.

Double baffle is 2 layers of wood where the subs are going to be mounted.

I see now how that would work to make the subs flush mounted. I can't do that though as I need all the space I can get. Good idea for the future though.

I have had kicker I think there stuff pounds good.

Get the Kickers. I have 2 kicker L7's and they are sick. i used to have r types and they are good but they blew up when it came to really high power handling

honestly, my opinion is if you want sound quality go for the alpines , if you wanna get crazy loud go for kicker :thumbsup:

two type r's

If you are going to go type R's I would consider getting JBL Power series P1222's they will pound well in a 3.5cube box, they'll safely take 800rms a piece and mine have been going strong for 2 years and I've never had one smell like a burning piece of Alpine VC

(one of those 2 12's was accidentally dropped 4 feet onto concrete, broke the magnet and had the pole piece shift, a few days later I tapped it with a rubber mallet, re-aligned the pole and could move the cone in and out with no apparent rubbing, I then took some epoxy and coated my cracked magnet, that was last summer and it is still going)