New Toy ;) Pics
http://www.audioflux.com/stuff/DLSUR15/full0015.jpg http://www.audioflux.com/stuff/DLSUR15/full0001.jpg http://www.audioflux.com/stuff/DLSUR15/full0006.jpg http://www.audioflux.com/stuff/DLSUR15/full0009.jpg
So far nice stuff... I have recently taken a liking to dls after hearing some of their components.... will post back with further updates as i fiddle around with the rest of the lineup
Kriston
[ February 26, 2004, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: battyrida ]
So far nice stuff... I have recently taken a liking to dls after hearing some of their components.... will post back with further updates as i fiddle around with the rest of the lineup
Kriston
[ February 26, 2004, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: battyrida ]
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 272
How much did that cost in the end in CAD to get it shipped? That is a really nice looking sub... does it come with a rubber mouting ring?
I think the surround is excessive... on their site the xmax is listed at like 15mm. With W7 sized surround (or probably even bigger) you'd think it would actually have a bigger xmax. Or even looking at the motor structure it doesn't seem like it would even have that much xmech.
The Jensen XS10 and XS12 subs are funny... they got like a 2" surround on the 10" subwoofer. And you push down on the cone and you move maybe like 1/2" down before you hit the back plate. LOL...
I think the surround is excessive... on their site the xmax is listed at like 15mm. With W7 sized surround (or probably even bigger) you'd think it would actually have a bigger xmax. Or even looking at the motor structure it doesn't seem like it would even have that much xmech.
The Jensen XS10 and XS12 subs are funny... they got like a 2" surround on the 10" subwoofer. And you push down on the cone and you move maybe like 1/2" down before you hit the back plate. LOL...
Originally posted by fivelitermustang:
How much did that cost in the end in CAD to get it shipped? That is a really nice looking sub... does it come with a rubber mouting ring?
I think the surround is excessive... on their site the xmax is listed at like 15mm. With W7 sized surround (or probably even bigger) you'd think it would actually have a bigger xmax. Or even looking at the motor structure it doesn't seem like it would even have that much xmech.
The Jensen XS10 and XS12 subs are funny... they got like a 2" surround on the 10" subwoofer. And you push down on the cone and you move maybe like 1/2" down before you hit the back plate. LOL...
How much did that cost in the end in CAD to get it shipped? That is a really nice looking sub... does it come with a rubber mouting ring?
I think the surround is excessive... on their site the xmax is listed at like 15mm. With W7 sized surround (or probably even bigger) you'd think it would actually have a bigger xmax. Or even looking at the motor structure it doesn't seem like it would even have that much xmech.
The Jensen XS10 and XS12 subs are funny... they got like a 2" surround on the 10" subwoofer. And you push down on the cone and you move maybe like 1/2" down before you hit the back plate. LOL...
the sub is a nice driver.... none the less not quite in the same league as the w7 however a very compitent driver
Kriston
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
Most truly reputable companies put a realistic power handling # on their product. I don't believe DLS to be any different than other top driver manufactures in this matter such as Focal.
High quality drivers with lower power handling are representative of a sound quality compromise. In other words, they are more reactive to the power applied to them. Look at the sensetivity of the W7 series, they will take double to triple the amount of power to reach lets say 100 db as other high quality SQ drivers. Also, as discussed on a Carsound thread, large voice coils increase a driver's inductive value. The more inductance a driver has, the slower it responds to electrical signals. (See Adire audio's white paper for more) So building a driver with a large voice coil and a huge Xmax is biasing it's output capability towards SPL. It is a compromise that all driver designers must consider. DLS has obviously chosen some features that allow both high SQ, and high SPL.
Personally, I'd chose DLS product over JL. I'm not discrediting JL's strong products, they are good at what they are designed for. But, I'm an SQ guy..
Adam
High quality drivers with lower power handling are representative of a sound quality compromise. In other words, they are more reactive to the power applied to them. Look at the sensetivity of the W7 series, they will take double to triple the amount of power to reach lets say 100 db as other high quality SQ drivers. Also, as discussed on a Carsound thread, large voice coils increase a driver's inductive value. The more inductance a driver has, the slower it responds to electrical signals. (See Adire audio's white paper for more) So building a driver with a large voice coil and a huge Xmax is biasing it's output capability towards SPL. It is a compromise that all driver designers must consider. DLS has obviously chosen some features that allow both high SQ, and high SPL.
Personally, I'd chose DLS product over JL. I'm not discrediting JL's strong products, they are good at what they are designed for. But, I'm an SQ guy..
Adam
Originally posted by fivelitermustang:
How much did that UR15 cost?
How much did that UR15 cost?
As for the DLS comparison to the 13, i will tell you now... whoever says the w7 is a power hog is not very well informed... yes the w7 has a large voice coil however it has very low inductance... also very low power compression....
i just poured on the power with my 13's and they took em with stride...from 750 watts to close to 3000 the w7's sounded great..
1000 watts with this ur is max... sq is their definately though
i like the driver.... im contemplating using them in my install...they do drop pretty low...i'll give em that... stays nice and punchy as well
Kriston
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,783
DING DING! (Round 2 has started)
13 W7-D1.5
Free Air Resonance (Fs): 23.5 Hz
Electrical “Q” (Qes): 0.476
Mechanical “Q” (Qms): 7.517
Total Speaker “Q” (Qts): 0.448
Equivalent Compliance (Vas): 3.68 cu. ft. (104.3 ltrs)
One-Way, Linear Excursion (Xmax)*: 1.25 in. (32 mm)
Thermal Power Handling (Pt): 1000 Watts Continuous
Reference Efficiency (no): 0.269 %
Efficiency (SPL @ 1W/1m): 86.3 dB
DC Resistance (Re): 2.41Ω
Effective Piston Area (Sd): 107.35 sq. in. (0.0693 sq. m)
Nominal Impedance (Znom): Dual 1.5Ω
I'd like to draw everyones attention to the Efficiency: 86.3 db
And in Swedish corner:
UR15
Speaker type : Subwoofer
Impedance : 2 x 4 ohm
Size : 15" (35 cm)
Power handling capacity : 500 W RMS / 800 W max
Frequency range : 15-2000 Hz
Sensitivity : 90 dB (1W/1m)
Magnet size : 220 mm (8,7"), 200 oz
Outer diameter : 390 mm (15,35")
Installation depth : 176 mm ( 6,93")
Mounting hole : 360 mm (14,17")
Weight : 13,4 kg (29,54 lb)
X-max : +- 14 mm (0,55")
Once again, the efficiency: 90 db!
So here we have 2 drivers that are approximately 3 db appart in effiecency. Which means one driver is going to need double the power to reach the same spl as the other.
Why is this? Quite simply the JL has a stiffer suspension to properly control the driver through all 32mm of excursion. If the JL only needed to move 14mm, the suspension would wouldn't need to be as stiff.
You mentioned power compression, well I'm definitely going to agree with you there. The JL must have a tall voice coil to have a huge Xmax. The large surface area of the taller voice coil is going to be able to dissapate more heat. But that is only part of the picture, the JL has a great voice coil venting system engineered into it's motor assembly. It's a very well designed driver that pushes air past the large surface area of the voice coil to cope with the high power required to move the beast.
(catching my breath...run on sentences suck)
Now for those that think I'm knocking ineffecient drivers, go look at the Morel or Dynaudio drivers. These are top level products that happen to be ineffecient. Heck, DLS had Morel build some of their product a few years ago, and it was fantastic.
It's all a compromise folks.
For the record, I was looking at putting a 13 W7 in my car before I bought what I have now.
Adam
[ February 27, 2004, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: PEI330Ci ]
13 W7-D1.5
Free Air Resonance (Fs): 23.5 Hz
Electrical “Q” (Qes): 0.476
Mechanical “Q” (Qms): 7.517
Total Speaker “Q” (Qts): 0.448
Equivalent Compliance (Vas): 3.68 cu. ft. (104.3 ltrs)
One-Way, Linear Excursion (Xmax)*: 1.25 in. (32 mm)
Thermal Power Handling (Pt): 1000 Watts Continuous
Reference Efficiency (no): 0.269 %
Efficiency (SPL @ 1W/1m): 86.3 dB
DC Resistance (Re): 2.41Ω
Effective Piston Area (Sd): 107.35 sq. in. (0.0693 sq. m)
Nominal Impedance (Znom): Dual 1.5Ω
I'd like to draw everyones attention to the Efficiency: 86.3 db
And in Swedish corner:
UR15
Speaker type : Subwoofer
Impedance : 2 x 4 ohm
Size : 15" (35 cm)
Power handling capacity : 500 W RMS / 800 W max
Frequency range : 15-2000 Hz
Sensitivity : 90 dB (1W/1m)
Magnet size : 220 mm (8,7"), 200 oz
Outer diameter : 390 mm (15,35")
Installation depth : 176 mm ( 6,93")
Mounting hole : 360 mm (14,17")
Weight : 13,4 kg (29,54 lb)
X-max : +- 14 mm (0,55")
Once again, the efficiency: 90 db!
So here we have 2 drivers that are approximately 3 db appart in effiecency. Which means one driver is going to need double the power to reach the same spl as the other.
Why is this? Quite simply the JL has a stiffer suspension to properly control the driver through all 32mm of excursion. If the JL only needed to move 14mm, the suspension would wouldn't need to be as stiff.
You mentioned power compression, well I'm definitely going to agree with you there. The JL must have a tall voice coil to have a huge Xmax. The large surface area of the taller voice coil is going to be able to dissapate more heat. But that is only part of the picture, the JL has a great voice coil venting system engineered into it's motor assembly. It's a very well designed driver that pushes air past the large surface area of the voice coil to cope with the high power required to move the beast.
(catching my breath...run on sentences suck)
Now for those that think I'm knocking ineffecient drivers, go look at the Morel or Dynaudio drivers. These are top level products that happen to be ineffecient. Heck, DLS had Morel build some of their product a few years ago, and it was fantastic.
It's all a compromise folks.
For the record, I was looking at putting a 13 W7 in my car before I bought what I have now.
Adam
[ February 27, 2004, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: PEI330Ci ]
