Proper tuning methods
08-20-2008, 02:41 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Proper tuning methods
This is my system:
1 Pioneer DEH-7800MP HU
2 10" JL Audio W3
4 JL Audio TR-5x7
1 JL Audio 300/4 Speaker Amp
1 JL Audio 1000/1 Subwoofer Amp
Scoshe e2 Wiring Kit (0-4 guage)
I'm running it in a 2002 Lincoln LS. The speakers take the stock spots inside the doors (its a 4-door). Amp's are mounted on the back of the backseats, and subs are in a dual 10" ported Bassworx box in the trunk.
Now, the sound I am currently getting out of this system sucks ***** compared to what I know it can push. The JL amps are very complicated with the amount of ***** on the back, and I know their is alot of tuning that I need to do to be sure I'm getting the best sound possible.
What I want to know is, what is the proper method to tune it? What are the things I need to look for that are matched up properly, i.e. Voltage output from the deck to what the amps are accepting it at, LPF, HPF, Subsonics, EQ curve... Basically can someone point me in the right direction on how to tune this? I've installed it all myself, I learned how to do that, tuning is something I have never had to do before and i'm interested in learning the proper techniques!
1 Pioneer DEH-7800MP HU
2 10" JL Audio W3
4 JL Audio TR-5x7
1 JL Audio 300/4 Speaker Amp
1 JL Audio 1000/1 Subwoofer Amp
Scoshe e2 Wiring Kit (0-4 guage)
I'm running it in a 2002 Lincoln LS. The speakers take the stock spots inside the doors (its a 4-door). Amp's are mounted on the back of the backseats, and subs are in a dual 10" ported Bassworx box in the trunk.
Now, the sound I am currently getting out of this system sucks ***** compared to what I know it can push. The JL amps are very complicated with the amount of ***** on the back, and I know their is alot of tuning that I need to do to be sure I'm getting the best sound possible.
What I want to know is, what is the proper method to tune it? What are the things I need to look for that are matched up properly, i.e. Voltage output from the deck to what the amps are accepting it at, LPF, HPF, Subsonics, EQ curve... Basically can someone point me in the right direction on how to tune this? I've installed it all myself, I learned how to do that, tuning is something I have never had to do before and i'm interested in learning the proper techniques!
08-20-2008, 04:15 PM
#2
HPF to 80. LPF to 50. bass off and treble at 0 or flat
all gains down then turn deck 3/4 of the way up.
then set the gains up until you hear some distortion then bring it a tad down. speakers first then the sub amp.
as of the HPF LPF on the amps ( i dont know JL ) usually the 4channel amp (or 2) HPF is on. then mono amp is LPF on and dial set max ( since the deck is set at 50hz thats what the amp will give at max) and if you have a sub sonic filter...., you set that lower to the approx tuning of your box.
hope this helps.
all gains down then turn deck 3/4 of the way up.
then set the gains up until you hear some distortion then bring it a tad down. speakers first then the sub amp.
as of the HPF LPF on the amps ( i dont know JL ) usually the 4channel amp (or 2) HPF is on. then mono amp is LPF on and dial set max ( since the deck is set at 50hz thats what the amp will give at max) and if you have a sub sonic filter...., you set that lower to the approx tuning of your box.
hope this helps.
08-20-2008, 04:56 PM
#3
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 17
The first thing I do when I install new speakers is ensure that everything is in phase. There's no worse sound than a +/- which has been reversed on one speaker in error. You can tell this is happening when you hear, what I like to call, a black hole at center stage. Disconnect the sub, play some music, and check your component or coaxial speakers in pairs. FL + FR, RL + RR, FL + RL, FR + RR, and then everything together. If you hear no empty voids that make your ears feel like they are being sucked in, you can move on.
After giving the speaker phase a thumbs up it's time to adjust your gains. Set the treble, mid, bass, effects, etc. to flat (normal). Turn the Amp gain way down almost all the way, just enough so that you can faintly hear music. Using a song with the clearest full range and loudest recording you can find, press play. Now, turn up the volume on the deck until you can just start to hear distortion. Back it down a notch. Next turn up the amplifier gains until you can just start to hear distortion, then back it off a notch. Your gains should be good to go.
As far as tuning your crossovers go, that's another ball of wax that I haven't mastered. A good car audio test CD helps, but I'll let someone else chime in on that.
After giving the speaker phase a thumbs up it's time to adjust your gains. Set the treble, mid, bass, effects, etc. to flat (normal). Turn the Amp gain way down almost all the way, just enough so that you can faintly hear music. Using a song with the clearest full range and loudest recording you can find, press play. Now, turn up the volume on the deck until you can just start to hear distortion. Back it down a notch. Next turn up the amplifier gains until you can just start to hear distortion, then back it off a notch. Your gains should be good to go.
As far as tuning your crossovers go, that's another ball of wax that I haven't mastered. A good car audio test CD helps, but I'll let someone else chime in on that.
08-21-2008, 10:17 AM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Right on i appreciate the help so far,
I have done what you guys suggested and so far alot better sound, but their is still something funky with the bass. I don't know if 2 10's just don't sound good in that car or what, but its definately not hitting as hard as it used to and the gain on my sub amp is maxed out... My speakers sound better than ever tho!... When i listen to my subs i can definately feel alot of destructive interference in the sound waves, so i'm gonna move my subs and see what i can get out of switching their spots.
But any EQ/x-over master's got some tips?
I have done what you guys suggested and so far alot better sound, but their is still something funky with the bass. I don't know if 2 10's just don't sound good in that car or what, but its definately not hitting as hard as it used to and the gain on my sub amp is maxed out... My speakers sound better than ever tho!... When i listen to my subs i can definately feel alot of destructive interference in the sound waves, so i'm gonna move my subs and see what i can get out of switching their spots.
But any EQ/x-over master's got some tips?
08-21-2008, 10:28 AM
#5
I had two of the 12 inch W3's in a sealed box with the same power you are running in a car about the same size, I smoked em really quickly as they didn't have nearly enough output for me. Gains at max, you will smoke them far quicker than I did, not to mention the torture on your electrical system....
...you need new subs dude.
...or, lower your expectation of a boomin system with W3's
...you need new subs dude.
...or, lower your expectation of a boomin system with W3's
08-21-2008, 12:52 PM
#6
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 17
1) Make sure that both subs are in phase together. If one is pushing while the other is pulling, the frequencies will cancel each other out.
2) Try reversing the phase of your subs against the other speakers. Sometimes it has an audible improvement.
3) Relocate the sub box. Some setups sound better with the sub box as far back as possible, others sound better facing the rear of the car instead of forward. Mine sounds the best facing forward and as far back as possible.
I'm not familiar with your sub box (there's a million of them out there). Some of them are generic and not built very well. You mentioned that it's not pushing what it should. Have you had this setup working well in another vehicle? If not, you may just need a enclosure that's built or tuned differently. I highly recommend a custom box built to the speaker's specs. I made mine using subwoofertools.com plans (which has been down for ages
) and my single 10" IDQ D2V2 on 200watts is putting out more audible low end bass than I expected. It's pretty nice actually.
2) Try reversing the phase of your subs against the other speakers. Sometimes it has an audible improvement.
3) Relocate the sub box. Some setups sound better with the sub box as far back as possible, others sound better facing the rear of the car instead of forward. Mine sounds the best facing forward and as far back as possible.
I'm not familiar with your sub box (there's a million of them out there). Some of them are generic and not built very well. You mentioned that it's not pushing what it should. Have you had this setup working well in another vehicle? If not, you may just need a enclosure that's built or tuned differently. I highly recommend a custom box built to the speaker's specs. I made mine using subwoofertools.com plans (which has been down for ages
) and my single 10" IDQ D2V2 on 200watts is putting out more audible low end bass than I expected. It's pretty nice actually.
08-21-2008, 03:16 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
MTT i was thinking the same thing... I have an Alpine Type-X 12" sittin in the basement, would that work better? OR should I look at getting a new pair of 10" subs? Any recommendations on what sub/s to go with that amp?
I think if possible I would like to stay with 2 10" subs because I already have the box for it. Maybe I could make a custom box to fit my new subs if I really needed too but i'm not sure I have the tools or the time for that kind of project.
I think if possible I would like to stay with 2 10" subs because I already have the box for it. Maybe I could make a custom box to fit my new subs if I really needed too but i'm not sure I have the tools or the time for that kind of project.
08-21-2008, 03:20 PM
#8
if you think the W3's sound good but just dont have the output you were expecting, I'd have someone build you a box for the X's, they sound damn good and will have much more output....with the right box, you won't be disappointed.
MTT i was thinking the same thing... I have an Alpine Type-X 12" sittin in the basement, would that work better? OR should I look at getting a new pair of 10" subs? Any recommendations on what sub/s to go with that amp?
I think if possible I would like to stay with 2 10" subs because I already have the box for it. Maybe I could make a custom box to fit my new subs if I really needed too but i'm not sure I have the tools or the time for that kind of project.
I think if possible I would like to stay with 2 10" subs because I already have the box for it. Maybe I could make a custom box to fit my new subs if I really needed too but i'm not sure I have the tools or the time for that kind of project.
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