Sub size???
 

Ok here are just a few things I have heard about how the subwoofer size effects performance:

"The bigger the cone size, the lower the frequencies the sub will be able to play louder" - guy at local shop

"The bigger the cone size the sloppier the base is " - guy at future shop
"The smaller the sub the harder it hits" - guy at future shop

"As long as the subs are set up right, a bigger sub shouldnt be sloppy at all and hit just as hard as a smaller one" - guy at another local shop \

What is your guys opinion??? thanks!

from what i know larger subs tend to pick up lows a lot better, and smaller subs tend to be a lot tighter. i've heard the bass on larger woofers hit hard, which is typically why smaller subs can be applied to mid bass, BUT, the last statement that as long as its set up right it shouldn't make much of a difference, is most accurate i think. i think one of the key elements in the enclosure. i know youtube isn't the place to really judge how well a sub sounds, but that guy peter from toxic bass has a video where he plays 2 8'' subs, and in the vid they drop so low i thought it was 2 12'' subs.

so i would say it depends on the box and whether or not they're set up properly, but typically a 15'' can drop lower than an 8'', and with the right tuning the 15'' shouldn't be sloppy

its all in the enclosure design.

you can make a 10" sound like a pair of 15"s with the proper power, woofer, and enclosure design.

So the only real advantage you are getting with a larger sub is the ability to hit lower notes? Because the buddy at future shop said he ahad a hatchback with four MTX tens that hit 153dB. If this is possible with tens then why do people go larger in cone size for most spl applications?

key word there is hatchback. they get loud easier than trunk cars and some SUV's.

Larger cone = More air displacement = Higher SPL??? Im not a pro with sound but Sorta would make sense no? aha Also depends where he placed his meter.

snobro1808, he said that the meter was on a stand in his front seat. Would that make a difference? I agree with what you are sayin about the larger displacement man.

HMmm, Yah I don't know much about where they place the MEter in Comps, If anybody knows plz share! But I just read that Spl is based on A certain amount of Newtons *energy* per square meter. Meaning that you could just take some tens push LOADS of power into them and theywill make high spl. But not very good SQL ahaha

jimprice. c o m/prosound/db.htm#spl

ya the buddy that hit 153dB with four tens had 600w rms going to each one, and the car had dynamat

to answer your questions there are many may different factors. Some 15's can be as musical and accurate as 10's if designed right and put the in the proper enclosure. Usually higher end subs. Cheapo 15's usuaully have the same motor as the 10" in the same line but a cone that weighs 4X as much. that would make for sloppy sound. Generally if the 15 was designed as a 15" and not 1 motor for all sizes type of deal it should be perfectly fine.

sikk nation, when you say "motor" you mean the magnet in the voice coil right? (sorry...newb here lol) So basically the stronger or better quality the magnet the faster the sub will respond regardless of the cone size?:dunno:

not always.. there's so many factors involved.. but in general terms, the bgger the cone.. the bigger the motor (magnetic force)

I think I'm starting to get it now. Thanks guys :smilie_da

Usuaully you only get proportionallly sized motors for higher end equipment though.

what brand names would you consider "high end" (list all of them that you know of, I want to try to learn as much about this topic as i can because it has been buggin me for quite some time now. Especially when you hear a different story from each place)

each place/person has different experience levels.. Futureshop sales staff for the clear majority are not real car audio guys. Just salesman that still believe that wattage is the only thing that determiens performance. for high end brans in terms of SQ

Morel,
Focal,
Hertz,
Dynaudio,
Rainbow,
Hybrid Audio,
CDT,
Diamond Audio
to name a few.

One of my cars currently has Focal 40KX (16" Polykevlar subwoofer) in it and everyone seems to to think I'm running alot of 8's because of the output and tightness of the bass. Mind you it's a $1600 sub, but it does go back to "You get what you pay for"

Focal subs are by far one of the best of the best in terms of SQ. I love Focal subs and I'm running 33v2 in a sealed box. I believe the KX and Utopias are designed for ported box.

or you can put a bigger motor in a smaller sub + lots of power and get osmething gnar :)

Also yah, Wanted to say that Ive noticed most\lots of 18's have dual or even quad 4" voice coils which is double the size of more dual voice coil 12's (2" VC) more magnet coverage meaning more energy transfered to the cone =D and I dunno if im right on this one, maybe sikk knows. But usually more voicecoils or wtvr, means more Xmax or excursion??? Only sometimes?? They could have a single VC with same Xmax as A DVC but just make make each voice coil half the size so theres more control.. Or do I have this whole voice coil thing wrong ahaha

VC configuration for SQ terms has more to do with inductance than anything else. For SPL monster subs it means shorter individual runs of wire around the former so the wire making up the coil itelf can handle more currect before adding heat to the equation. As for XMAX or SPl.. VC configuration is primarily for wiring options.

Also the V1'a and Utopia subs are mean for ported, the V2's and KX's (with the exception of 46KX are designed for smaller sealed applications)

Hey Sikk Nation, what would you recomend as "high end" SPL subwoofers? I will be doing my car for sq in about a year or so, but in the time being I want to have some fun with SPL.

Digital Designs 3500 and 9500 series
Fi car audio BTL
Audioque HDC3 (TF One's if you wanna be Canadian)
T3 Audio TSNS
Memphis MOJO's

Jalat made a pretty good list allready.

Can add

Resonant Engineering
Treo
Kicker
and many many more to that category. In SPL the car, and enclosure and far too many hours fine tuning are more important than which subs are being used.

Thanks guys! :smilie_da Lots of great info here!!

I've never done anything concerning SPL, but if I were looking for a subwoofer for this application, I think I'd just pick the one with the longest excursion and/or the biggest magnet. I wouldn't worry about what the cone was made of, or how it looks. I guess the rigidity of the basket is important too. lol

Don't ask me why. Watching the cone move an inch in either direction would be really fun.

Cone rigidity is VERY important in SPL.. any flexing is lost pressure.

That makes sense. I was thinking the same thing about the basket, but I guess the entire structure has to be solidly built. That's where the more expensive woofers have the advantage I take it. I mean, you could have a monster magnet, but if things aren't built strong enough, you haven't gained anything.

All things being equal, it must be more difficult for a 15" woofers cone to be rigid, compared to a 10" sub. Are there any aluminum coned 15" subs?

To help the original postee, what material(s) should he want the cone to be constructed of?

Stay away from a large sub that has a higher FS measurement. Some larger drivers actually have a hard time playing deep. Try looking for a number around 18-25.

If you are on a budget, these subs do a GREAT job!

Parts Express: Dayton TIT400C-4 15" Titanic Mk III Subwoofer 4 Ohm

What do you mean by "FS" :dunno:

Resonance (redirect Resonant frequency) a system to oscillate at maximum amplitude at certain frequencies , known as the system's resonance frequencies (or resonant frequencies). …

The "sweet spot" the sub plays at when it is not in a cabinet.

really? i thought larger subs typically had an easier time playing lower notes.

A larger (read heavier) cone is harder to control at lower frequencies. Although the cone moves slower at lower HZ, it has to travel in and out farther.

in general they do, But in order to keep them "tighter" sounding or handle more power mechanically(not bottom out) some larger subs have incredibly stiff suspensions to control th big heavy cone and control mechanical travel better.

Most dedicated SPL subs have a high FS because they are often given 4-5X the power they are rated for for short burps, and usually are only playing over 45Hz.

For a really loud daily driver that can still play music without sounding like a fart box you have be a little more carefull in choosing your subs.

the dam MTX has an aluminum cone. pretty much all of theyre subs do ( almost ) thats the only brand i know so far

Eclipse used to...but they "ping" and add their own hgher frequency harmonic. Not enough damping. Paper, Kevlar and CF are what all the serious SPL subs are made of for a reason

I wouldnt want a set up that was JUST made for spl. I would want it to be 140-145dB daily driver, that I could pound all day :smokin: What would you guys recomend for a set up that could reach my dB goal and still be able to play regular music with reasonable sq when I want it to? Thanks again guys, I realy appreciate your advice!!! :smilie_da

what car ya have?

its hard to hit the numbers your talking about and maintain good SQ

Only woofer i can think of that could do what you want are the Image Dynamics IDMAX 12"s

Thanks jalat, and you are probably right, thats a little to much to ask for eh? lol Sikk Nation, I have a 2001 Mazda Protege 5spd.

trunk car too... 12" kicker L7 in about 3.8cubes, with 18Sq.in of port tuned to 38hz should get you close with a solid 1200Wrms amp and adequate wiring and grounds.