Two entry level subs vs One mid level sub
12-08-2003, 08:18 AM
#1
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 118
I currently have 2 RF Punch Z subs in a sealed box. Each sub carries an 8-ohm load and total wattage is 300 RMS (150 rms x 2). More info here:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...FZ3412&g=67700
Only difference with the one pictured and mine is the impedence.
I wanted to switch to one 4-ohm 300 watt subwoofer. I found someone selling an Infiniti 1220w for $80 Canadian pictured here:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...ecs&i=1081220W
I wanted to know if it is worth it to do this. Is this sub much better than my two 12's? Should I get another subwoofer? I'm also looking into JBL, Polk, Alpine, Kicker, and JL Audio. Also should I stay with 12 or go to 10?
These are some of my other choices:
Infinity Reference 1230w
JBL GT Series GT120
Infinity Kappa 120.3se
Alpine Type-R SWR-1221D
JL Audio 12W3v2-D2
[ December 08, 2003, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Kamozee ]
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...FZ3412&g=67700
Only difference with the one pictured and mine is the impedence.
I wanted to switch to one 4-ohm 300 watt subwoofer. I found someone selling an Infiniti 1220w for $80 Canadian pictured here:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...ecs&i=1081220W
I wanted to know if it is worth it to do this. Is this sub much better than my two 12's? Should I get another subwoofer? I'm also looking into JBL, Polk, Alpine, Kicker, and JL Audio. Also should I stay with 12 or go to 10?
These are some of my other choices:
Infinity Reference 1230w
JBL GT Series GT120
Infinity Kappa 120.3se
Alpine Type-R SWR-1221D
JL Audio 12W3v2-D2
[ December 08, 2003, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Kamozee ]
12-08-2003, 08:50 AM
#2
Better in the sense of durability, yes. Output is really dependable on the enclosure size, type, and applicable tuning, AND the sub. Not just the sub.
Sub brands/models all have different parameters and specs according to build materials, VC impedance, magnet size, etc. Therefore, their parameters dictate the box type and box size that allow it to perform the best. To an extent, it can be used to the users advantage to be within a tolerance of box size/type requirements to allow either more boomy bass, or tighter, more accurate bass. I hope I didn't lose you. [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img]
The point is, the same sub in one box can sound completely different in another box. Either have more output or more sound quality...to varying degrees.
So with a 'mid fidelity' sub, it may not be the most important part in determining what ouput you're going to get. That's basically the point I was trying to make.
If you're going to get a single sub, out of the list of which ones you desire, get the specs and see how the recommended box volume for either sealed/ported work with what you have in your car. Basically buy a sub that'll fit in the space you have for the output you want. I would recommend ported if you want loudness.
You heard enough from me today. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Sub brands/models all have different parameters and specs according to build materials, VC impedance, magnet size, etc. Therefore, their parameters dictate the box type and box size that allow it to perform the best. To an extent, it can be used to the users advantage to be within a tolerance of box size/type requirements to allow either more boomy bass, or tighter, more accurate bass. I hope I didn't lose you. [img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img]
The point is, the same sub in one box can sound completely different in another box. Either have more output or more sound quality...to varying degrees.
So with a 'mid fidelity' sub, it may not be the most important part in determining what ouput you're going to get. That's basically the point I was trying to make.
If you're going to get a single sub, out of the list of which ones you desire, get the specs and see how the recommended box volume for either sealed/ported work with what you have in your car. Basically buy a sub that'll fit in the space you have for the output you want. I would recommend ported if you want loudness.
You heard enough from me today. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
12-08-2003, 11:48 AM
#4
If you're still looking for one of those Infinity 1220W 12" Subs ...Theres a store on Ebay who has tons of them all the time and you can grab em for like 30 bucks and pick em up in Richmond Hill/Markham. I've bought alot of stuff from the store and have never had a problem with em.
just a thought...
Emart Depot Ebay Store
just a thought...
Emart Depot Ebay Store
12-09-2003, 06:14 AM
#5
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 118
Okay. Here's the thing. With my current RF subs, I don't really capture the whole bass spectrum. I only get mid and high bass and not much low bass. I want a subwoofer (out of the ones that I have listed) that will produce bass at all levels (if possible). I will put the sub in a sealed box.
My amp delivers 250 watts rms on paper and this line of RF underrates so Fosgate told me about 300 watts is what I should expect. From reviews, nobody has anything bad to say about the Alpine or JL Audio sound-wise.
I want to know what the advantages and disadvantages are of switching from two 150 watt subs to one 300 watt sub.
[ December 09, 2003, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: Kamozee ]
My amp delivers 250 watts rms on paper and this line of RF underrates so Fosgate told me about 300 watts is what I should expect. From reviews, nobody has anything bad to say about the Alpine or JL Audio sound-wise.
I want to know what the advantages and disadvantages are of switching from two 150 watt subs to one 300 watt sub.
[ December 09, 2003, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: Kamozee ]
12-09-2003, 06:31 AM
#6
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 118
Here are some specs that I have gathered particularly the sealed box volume, sensitivity, Vas, Fs, Qts & Xmax (all listed in this order).
I've heard that these are the factors to consider when buying subs. As a reference, I've also listed the specs from the subs in my car now.
Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812
1.25 cubic feet, 89dB, 172.7 liters, 25 Hz, 0.49, 7.67mm
I have 2 of the subs above in my car now. I want to switch to one of the below...
Infinity Reference 1230w
1.25 cubic feet, 90dB, 78.5 liters, 27.27 Hz, 0.44, 12.25mm.
JBL GT Series GT120
1 cubic foot, 93dB, 91.12 liters, 24.75Hz, 0.43, 12.5mm.
Infinity Kappa 120.3se
1 cubic foot, 92dB, 55.61 liters, 28.43Hz, 0.48, 13.5mm.
Alpine Type-R SWR-1221D
0.85 cubic foot, 87dB, 58 liters, 27Hz, 0.38, 13.35mm.
JL Audio 12W3v2-D2
1.25 cubic feet, 86.7dB, 103.4 liters, 24.3 Hz, 0.449, 13mm.
[img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img] What does all this mean?
[ December 09, 2003, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: Kamozee ]
I've heard that these are the factors to consider when buying subs. As a reference, I've also listed the specs from the subs in my car now.
Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812
1.25 cubic feet, 89dB, 172.7 liters, 25 Hz, 0.49, 7.67mm
I have 2 of the subs above in my car now. I want to switch to one of the below...
Infinity Reference 1230w
1.25 cubic feet, 90dB, 78.5 liters, 27.27 Hz, 0.44, 12.25mm.
JBL GT Series GT120
1 cubic foot, 93dB, 91.12 liters, 24.75Hz, 0.43, 12.5mm.
Infinity Kappa 120.3se
1 cubic foot, 92dB, 55.61 liters, 28.43Hz, 0.48, 13.5mm.
Alpine Type-R SWR-1221D
0.85 cubic foot, 87dB, 58 liters, 27Hz, 0.38, 13.35mm.
JL Audio 12W3v2-D2
1.25 cubic feet, 86.7dB, 103.4 liters, 24.3 Hz, 0.449, 13mm.
[img]graemlins/freak.gif[/img] What does all this mean?
[ December 09, 2003, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: Kamozee ]
12-09-2003, 06:36 AM
#7
Any of the ones in your list would do. Hahaha, you posted just before me with what I wanted you to do. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
The RFZ has a high Vas, which is Volumetric equivalence. Generally, the higher the Vas, the bigger of a box it needs to play deep. I think the RFZ recommended enclosure size had you fooled. That's a bit small.
I suppose a single 12 in a box the size of your 2 would help to make bass deeper. You'll have twice the airspace than using one.
What I do for a sealed box, is take the recommended size they take, and make the box about 20% bigger.
Moving up to a sub that has a higher power handling simply requires more power to get it running optimally. That means they're likely less efficient.
I suggest picking one of those subs in the list and building it according to what the specs say, possibly a little bigger. You don't want to go too big, or else the sub will bottom out easier with more power.
If you're running ported, you may want to change port tuning. A longer port lowers the tuning frequency. You may have it tuned high -- short port, making the bass high and peaky sounding.
Another suggestion would be to try to move the box around the cabin if possible to see if that changes anything. In sedans, usually the best output ocurrs when you have the sub facing the back of the trunk (back of the car I mean) and as close as possible to the trunk opening. I still think the box needs work.
[ December 09, 2003, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: Chadxton ]
The RFZ has a high Vas, which is Volumetric equivalence. Generally, the higher the Vas, the bigger of a box it needs to play deep. I think the RFZ recommended enclosure size had you fooled. That's a bit small.
I suppose a single 12 in a box the size of your 2 would help to make bass deeper. You'll have twice the airspace than using one.
What I do for a sealed box, is take the recommended size they take, and make the box about 20% bigger.
Moving up to a sub that has a higher power handling simply requires more power to get it running optimally. That means they're likely less efficient.
I suggest picking one of those subs in the list and building it according to what the specs say, possibly a little bigger. You don't want to go too big, or else the sub will bottom out easier with more power.
If you're running ported, you may want to change port tuning. A longer port lowers the tuning frequency. You may have it tuned high -- short port, making the bass high and peaky sounding.
Another suggestion would be to try to move the box around the cabin if possible to see if that changes anything. In sedans, usually the best output ocurrs when you have the sub facing the back of the trunk (back of the car I mean) and as close as possible to the trunk opening. I still think the box needs work.
[ December 09, 2003, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: Chadxton ]
12-09-2003, 06:47 AM
#8
I don't know why, but I feel the Kappa would be right for you if you're going sealed.
Now that you're going down from 2 subs to 1, you'll have more airspace to work with. What's the current size of the box you have for the 2 RFZ's?
Now that you're going down from 2 subs to 1, you'll have more airspace to work with. What's the current size of the box you have for the 2 RFZ's?
12-09-2003, 09:22 AM
#10
Yankee
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 218
Hmmm... why not build a new box for your current subs? I would rather have more voice coils to share the heat and more cone area myself... What about an ABC box or bandpass? How much room do you have to spare? I have a single JL 10W0-4 in a 6th order bandpass that will pump out the lows like a champ with a small 100watt amp... Only downside is the box is 3ft^3... so you can iso load your two subs and reduce the box to keep it close to your current box volume...
