unauthorized e-tailers
03-09-2004, 08:10 PM
#1
I want some feedback from both consumers, retailers and manufacturers about unauthorized e-tailers. I'm having a huge pissing contest right now with one of them and have been asked to "build" a forum topic for this.
For those of you who do not know what this is, it is a internet based company that buys equipment from whoever and sells it online. While there are some great e-tailer sites out there that are fully in compliance with the dealer agreements from the manufacturer, there are many that are not. It is these e-tailers that my forum topic is designed to make the consumer aware about.
Some of the claims and facts you may have heard of before, others I expect will be added by your comments. This is in any consumers best interest as I as a retailer hate to say I'm sorry Mr. Customer, but you have no warranty. And the fight begins because they did not know any better when they purchased their product from the e-tailer.
Here are some basic facts.
- huge shipping charges
- huge delay in getting products
- company here today, gone tomorrow with your $
- no manufacturer warranty
- remanufactured products sold as new
- no dealer agreement to sell products
- possible money laundering
While I understand the need and desire to save dollars as this is how I got into this business 16 years ago, I also understand the need of the customer to some into a store that is an authorized dealer. I as a dealer in Canada have very strict dealer agreements that must be adhered to regarding sales of product on the internet, any reputable company would do the same. Your comments / flames / advice is always welcome and anticipated. Be it stories on if you've gotten burned, payed huge shipping $, had a good experience, have found it hard to find a good e-tailer, whatever. Again this is in no way connected to this site and the superbly run and authorized e-tailer that responds on this site.
Rob Atkinson
For those of you who do not know what this is, it is a internet based company that buys equipment from whoever and sells it online. While there are some great e-tailer sites out there that are fully in compliance with the dealer agreements from the manufacturer, there are many that are not. It is these e-tailers that my forum topic is designed to make the consumer aware about.
Some of the claims and facts you may have heard of before, others I expect will be added by your comments. This is in any consumers best interest as I as a retailer hate to say I'm sorry Mr. Customer, but you have no warranty. And the fight begins because they did not know any better when they purchased their product from the e-tailer.
Here are some basic facts.
- huge shipping charges
- huge delay in getting products
- company here today, gone tomorrow with your $
- no manufacturer warranty
- remanufactured products sold as new
- no dealer agreement to sell products
- possible money laundering
While I understand the need and desire to save dollars as this is how I got into this business 16 years ago, I also understand the need of the customer to some into a store that is an authorized dealer. I as a dealer in Canada have very strict dealer agreements that must be adhered to regarding sales of product on the internet, any reputable company would do the same. Your comments / flames / advice is always welcome and anticipated. Be it stories on if you've gotten burned, payed huge shipping $, had a good experience, have found it hard to find a good e-tailer, whatever. Again this is in no way connected to this site and the superbly run and authorized e-tailer that responds on this site.
Rob Atkinson
03-09-2004, 09:50 PM
#2
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 961
Well personaly I first do my best to buy from an Canadian company. I'm not up on the e-tailer thing. I'd rather see the person I'm getting stuff from. Money is a line but not always the bottom line! Hope this helps.
[ March 10, 2004, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Mini Steve ]
[ March 10, 2004, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Mini Steve ]
03-09-2004, 09:51 PM
#3
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,089
In most cases I am willing to pay the extra money to get the products from a shop around here but when it comes down to products like PG that are double the price in canada I can not through $700 out the window for support ad warrenty.
Not all e-tailers are as bad as you make them out to be many tell you the product is a return or remanufactured and shipping you pay for upfront so you are well aware of it when getting ordering the product.
Not all e-tailers are as bad as you make them out to be many tell you the product is a return or remanufactured and shipping you pay for upfront so you are well aware of it when getting ordering the product.
03-10-2004, 09:07 AM
#5
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 254
I've bought my entire system off the internet but I try to stay will local sellers with personal used equipment.
I bought my deck of some furniture retailer in Nova Scotia and haven't had a problem with it. Right now I'm waiting for a Phoenix Gold amp from Indoaudio. I'll post back when I receive the amp.
I just always make a point to never spend too much money on ebay. I'd never buy an amp over $300 US becuase if for some reason I never received it or got a piece of crap, I can afford the hit. If I was to spend $500 US and not get anything, that would be a loss that I couldn't afford. Internet buying is not only about assessing risk, it's also about incorporating that risk into your spending and budget.
With ebay I'll only buy a big item from an e-tailer if they have a lot of feedback and if the feedback is recent and pertains to the item I'm ordering.
ALWAYS READ THE FINE PRINT. READ IT CAREFULLY.
Last, when I'm doing business with an american seller I'll always ask for customs free shipping. I learned my lesson the hard way when some guy sent me a cap and labeled its value as $75 and I ended up paying $56 worth of duties. My buddy bought a mixer from the states a while ago and had to pay about $300 for the duties. Car Audio is an expensive hobby to begin with, I have no desire to make it MORE expensive.
Dale.
I bought my deck of some furniture retailer in Nova Scotia and haven't had a problem with it. Right now I'm waiting for a Phoenix Gold amp from Indoaudio. I'll post back when I receive the amp.
I just always make a point to never spend too much money on ebay. I'd never buy an amp over $300 US becuase if for some reason I never received it or got a piece of crap, I can afford the hit. If I was to spend $500 US and not get anything, that would be a loss that I couldn't afford. Internet buying is not only about assessing risk, it's also about incorporating that risk into your spending and budget.
With ebay I'll only buy a big item from an e-tailer if they have a lot of feedback and if the feedback is recent and pertains to the item I'm ordering.
ALWAYS READ THE FINE PRINT. READ IT CAREFULLY.
Last, when I'm doing business with an american seller I'll always ask for customs free shipping. I learned my lesson the hard way when some guy sent me a cap and labeled its value as $75 and I ended up paying $56 worth of duties. My buddy bought a mixer from the states a while ago and had to pay about $300 for the duties. Car Audio is an expensive hobby to begin with, I have no desire to make it MORE expensive.
Dale.
03-10-2004, 09:24 AM
#6
I'll do internet buying from an authorized dealer, it makes me feel a little better if i know the background of the company too. I'd never buy anything without doing a little research into the person or company. It seems to me that etailers promise prices that are too good to be true. There has to be some sort of snag to it (refurbished).
03-10-2004, 09:41 AM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
okay I don't think he's talking used stuff from ebay and such ..used market it a whole different thing ........
as for unautorised sales I agree with slow/N\low ........
but I see no problem with authorised internet sales .......... some of us don't have a local shop to hit up and I see it no different than mail order .....ect.........
as for unautorised sales I agree with slow/N\low ........
but I see no problem with authorised internet sales .......... some of us don't have a local shop to hit up and I see it no different than mail order .....ect.........
03-10-2004, 09:45 AM
#8
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,260
Originally posted by slow/n\low:
simply put.
unauthorized on line sales are the biggest reason for the decline in car audio over the past few years. They are evil and are ruining the industry!
simply put.
unauthorized on line sales are the biggest reason for the decline in car audio over the past few years. They are evil and are ruining the industry!
03-10-2004, 12:39 PM
#9
Thanks for the replies guys, keep them coming. The post above from Dodgeram is correct, I was definitely not targeting the E-bay and used market. I am targeting the "new" product available from the unauthorized e-tailer.
Here is a prime example of an unauthorized e-tailer. Insert brand name where applicable, I'll us Eclipse this time. This has nothing to do with the price of the product in Canada vs. the US, like was mentioned by Gmac above. But his response was one that I was hoping to hear. It addresses a similar but different issue (how a product line is imported - see the Rockford vs. Kicker thread for my responses near the end. Anyhow here is the example.
Eclipse has a dealer agreement that says to us in Canada that we are not allowed to advertise or sell the product on - line. The unscrupulous e-tailer goes out and buys the product from an authorized dealer and resells it on his site as "new" product at a heavily discounted price. AS he is a unauthorized dealer he has no manufacturer warranty to offer to you. The process of him buying from an authorized dealer and selling to you is called trans-shipping and is 100% against our dealer agreements. Eclipse for example will repossess any Eclipse equipment purchased from a trans-shipper and then pursue legal actions against the parties involved.
Example: you go to your local store and find this relly cool sub for $600.00 CDN and you want it but want a better deal. You do a net search and find it at Five Finger Discount Jim's Audio site. He has it listed for $400.00 CDN. Leave shipping charges out of the picture for now. You buy the product and it arrives, and let's say that it is new. You build your box, get it installed and hammer on it for 8 months and it dies a horrible death due to abuse (We've all blow up subs before). You contact the e-tailer and he is out of business. You contact the local dealer and he says sorry you have no warranty, you did not purchase from an authorized dealer. You contact the manufacturer and they say the same thing. Are you pissed, yes, at who though? Let's say the e-tailer is still in business and the will warranty the item with their own personal guarantee. But they no longer have access to the particular brand that you bought as they were found to be trans-shipping. They will replace your Eclipse with a Sony and that's it. Do you take the deal and swallow the loss? Are your willing to build another sub box as the sub is different than what you bought? This is a prime example of how an e-tailer sucks you in and deals with a problem. Post up some more info based on this and whatever else you have heard.
Rob Atkinson
Forbidden Audio Ltd.
(not meant to be a SPAM)
Here is a prime example of an unauthorized e-tailer. Insert brand name where applicable, I'll us Eclipse this time. This has nothing to do with the price of the product in Canada vs. the US, like was mentioned by Gmac above. But his response was one that I was hoping to hear. It addresses a similar but different issue (how a product line is imported - see the Rockford vs. Kicker thread for my responses near the end. Anyhow here is the example.
Eclipse has a dealer agreement that says to us in Canada that we are not allowed to advertise or sell the product on - line. The unscrupulous e-tailer goes out and buys the product from an authorized dealer and resells it on his site as "new" product at a heavily discounted price. AS he is a unauthorized dealer he has no manufacturer warranty to offer to you. The process of him buying from an authorized dealer and selling to you is called trans-shipping and is 100% against our dealer agreements. Eclipse for example will repossess any Eclipse equipment purchased from a trans-shipper and then pursue legal actions against the parties involved.
Example: you go to your local store and find this relly cool sub for $600.00 CDN and you want it but want a better deal. You do a net search and find it at Five Finger Discount Jim's Audio site. He has it listed for $400.00 CDN. Leave shipping charges out of the picture for now. You buy the product and it arrives, and let's say that it is new. You build your box, get it installed and hammer on it for 8 months and it dies a horrible death due to abuse (We've all blow up subs before). You contact the e-tailer and he is out of business. You contact the local dealer and he says sorry you have no warranty, you did not purchase from an authorized dealer. You contact the manufacturer and they say the same thing. Are you pissed, yes, at who though? Let's say the e-tailer is still in business and the will warranty the item with their own personal guarantee. But they no longer have access to the particular brand that you bought as they were found to be trans-shipping. They will replace your Eclipse with a Sony and that's it. Do you take the deal and swallow the loss? Are your willing to build another sub box as the sub is different than what you bought? This is a prime example of how an e-tailer sucks you in and deals with a problem. Post up some more info based on this and whatever else you have heard.
Rob Atkinson
Forbidden Audio Ltd.
(not meant to be a SPAM)
