Us and Them !
 

I have been online today doing some work, surfing the web and such and at the end of it I am mad, bitter, pissed off and generally scared for the future of our profession.

My rant is in no particular order because I spent more time in the shop then in the class room in school so you can kiss my ass if it's not correct.

Most people in the business have felt and do feel that "The Box" was killing this industry and that "The Box's" race to zero was going to destroy this industry, well I am here to apologize on behalf of the industry and say I am sorry. "The Box" is killing profit margin but they are not killing the industry. What is killing the industry is the group of people that I am going to call "THEY" for the duration of this post and "THEY" are the installers, techs and whatever else THEY call themselves of the this industry.

If your reading this, I’m talking to you, I’m going to lay out some points, beliefs and observations as to why THEY are killing this industry.

Now to clarify one thing since your blood is already boiling over my above comment, there is THEY and there is US/WE..

THEY are the installers of the world that give US/WE a bad name because THEY do not take pride in the work they do.

When this industry started to take off the world in general was a better place, we cared about one another, we cared about cars, we cared about the product and we cared about the quality of the work that was done to the cars. Yes there have always been THEM but they were in small numbers and they usually got with the program quickly because we out numbered them greatly. Fast forward to the 21rst century and the tables have been turned on us greatly I am sad to say. To say that THEY have taken over can be said about more industries then just ours, everything in general is that way these days.

Who are THEY, well to me THEY makes up probably between 80-85% of our industries working installers. In point form I will tell you what makes them a THEY.

They:
• Have no work ethic
• Have no desire to do the dirty work and earn their place in the industry
• Have no desire to better themselves at their own expense and own initiative
• Have every desire to become the next Reme and work on the top cars right away
• Have written a test, passed and now want a job even though they have never picked up a hand tool before
• Do the job that is required by them based on the pay that they are getting for said job
• Will take the short cuts to get the job done and out the door
• Do not care that a car has to return for warranty work
• Will send a car out the door knowing there is a problem and deal with it if they happen to come back
• Have no interest in learning why things happen and are done for a reason
• Can’t function if there isn’t a kit or a tech print out on the wiring for the car
• Have no problem rebooking a customer to finish the job because they are “off”
• Don’t see a problem with showing up at 10am on the dot when they are supposed to start working on a car at 10am and are not ready
• Will go for lunch because it is lunch time instead of taking a few extra minutes and finishing the job
• Will not demo the vehicle for a customer
• Will not bother to do the little things like set radio stations, set the clock, do a simple balance test to check phasing, and heaven forbid they actually remove any garbage left in the vehicle once they are done the install
• Do not care about how the job is done, looks or works so long as it’s done and gone.

There are many things that make them a THEY but these are the main ones. Now what makes us a WE.

We

• Spend our time and our money making ourselves better
• Do what it takes to get the job done
• Do what it takes to make the customer happy
• Show up to work early to get prepared for our day so we can work on the customers car when it arrives
• Care about how something is installed
• Care that something should look good where you will never see because that is the right way to do it.
• Spend the money on the tools to do the job right
• Look at it as a career not just a job
• Teach people who are willing to learn so that the industry grows
• Educate our customers on what they are buying and what will work for them
• Try to better each job that we do, we challenge ourselves to be better
• Ask for help, advice and take it with a open ear to digest and grow from feedback

Ask yourself these questions: will you put screws through the back wall of a PU truck to mount a amp or will you mount a piece of MDF with some adhesive to the wall and then screw or nut and bolt into that, will you mount a deck in a car and rely on the cage tabs for support or will you back strap a deck that has very little support, will you mount a amp to the floor of the car with screws or will you secure a piece of MDF to the floor and screw to that, will you solder a deck into a car or to a harness or will you use connectors and create a tight fit inside the dash and use the crimp is a good connection as justification for it, will you properly predrill everything instead of using self tapping screws and blister or crack what your drilling into, do you pin a subbox together or take the time to glue and screw (predrilled and countersunk of course) the box together, will you hide siren in a fender or under a fusebox or just mount it to the most open piece of sheet metal under the hood, when using nuts and bolts (do you even use them ?) do you loctite them so they don’t vibrate loose or do you just wing it, do you build a plate to put a round speaker in a oval hole or do you fill the hole up with duct tape or Dynamat, when you install a LED do you top mount it or flush mount it from underneath, when carpeting a box do you make separate carpeted end caps or do you just try to cut a big straight X on the side of the box, when you work on a GM do you use a side post adapter or do you just cut the factory side post rubber and make it fit, do you loom every wire insight or do you spend the time to tiewrap the wires even and neatly, do you mount a SAT antenna on the dash or rear deck or do you take the time to mount it outside the car and run the wires properly.

You need to ask yourself HONESTLY which of those two categories you fit into because there are only two. You can’t do half and half, and call it a good job. In a world where people look for the easy way out, the path of least resistance, the quicker route, people need to decide which side they want to fit into for the long haul.

Does everyone have the skills to be a CRAFTSMAN over night, nope no way, won’t happen but do you try to make the difference with each job you do. Do you seek out advice and education and better yourself others around you. Can you do this in “The Box” yeah, you might not make as much money but if your in it for the long haul the money will come to you.

Here are some quotes that I have always lived by

“If you can work with your hands you will always have a job” – my father
“Use the right tool for the job” – my father
“If a tool makes your job easier then it is worth the investment” – my father
“Be proud of your work and the world will reward you” – my grandpa
“Do a quality job and you will be paid a quality wage, do a shitty job and get a shitty wage” – my father
“What we do in live, echoes in eternity” – Russel Crowe in Gladiator

It really boils down to something simple……………….do you feel proud about the job you just did on that car, would you post pictures of it for the whole world to see and have nothing to fear about how the job was done.

Lets be honest with ourselves and one another……………………..who are you…….

This post is in no means a dig at any person, shop or ideal, simply my thoughts (and many others) about this world we live in called Car Audio

Time for a beer……………………………

Wow, what a manifesto. Something on the same level as Jerry Maguire.

I disagree on a couple of points but you know that already based on the 'quality of work' that I am told I do. If everyone could install and live to your master code there Tim the industry would certainly be a much better place :thumbsup:

Yes it would........yes it would................

Brought a tear to my eye.....been yelling that for years.

Hip Hip Horahhhh
Hip Hip Horahhhh
Hip Hip Horahhhh

Tim... WOW... just wow. In whole I agree, but as you state, we both have the problem of finding new staff that are willing to approach this as a career.

Many of "them/they" come to work hung over, talk to friends/family/dealer/astrologist/spouses on the phone half the day, bitch if they stay 15mins late, but think nothing of arriving late and think if something breaks during an install -- it is not their fault.

I really do think that the biggest problem is this new generation are, for the most part, as my good friend Brian Ayres says "Whinny Tittie Babbies" or WTB for short. This generation has been spoon fed by our educational system, their parents and by us. They are not accountable for anything, everything is given, nothing is earned. They do not want to put in the time to learn and earn knowledge, they want to print a chart and then cry if the wire is not "where it is in the picture".

I am a parent, and I marvel at how much other parents "enable" their kids and how little they know about them and what they do. If their child gets drunk or stoned it is "fine" -- some of these parents even get drunk or stoned with their children! All of this starts at home and it is time people stopped raising WTBs and started raising ADULTS who take responsibility and pride in their life and work.

x2!!!!!!!!!

I was going to post "The world's ****ed, kids are ****ed and no one gives a anymore" but it was to short :)

Amen Tim & Mike you hit the nail 100% on the head hands down. Your statment is flawless. Even though we are talking Car Audio its the life lesson's missing from the learning process of this generation and it goes not just for Car Audio and the industry, but every industry. Period :appl: :appl:

The new gen up and coming have one major issue from what I have seen..........."they" watch to much bloody TV (Uniquie Whips, American Chooper etc etc) and from all that TV "they" never see what goes on behind they secnes. They never see the hard long work, they just see a few mintues of smoke and mirros and then the finished product.

Most to all the "old" timers or "Us" do not have the pateints anymore trying to explain how things were. I would like to believe (from being in this indy) that most to all of "Us" do it because we love it, not because it is simply a "job". Big Box has somewhat brought out the "Job" aspect of it all, and what boils me up is when people slam Big Box and forget that some of the installers working there ARE trying to change things.

Remeber, "we" all were rookies..........."we" all have done things in cars that if "someone took pictures of and posted "we" would hang our heads, BUT "We" learned from those early cars/jobs and should be a little more understanding to the new gen.....believe me when I say that there is still hope for "our" indy but it will need "Our" help, not criticism.

You all know who you are!!

some of us are trying to teach attention to detail and pride in work. My jr installer is 20, and somedays I just want to run him over with the car he works on, me and my other installer push him harder and harder everyday, and slowly it sinks in that we know what's right and how it's done etc.

but some of the people I've had come through the bay as installers, bloody hopeless, I'm not one to give up trying though so I keep pushing and they usually end up quitting.

I know for myself that I feel really good when you can sit back and see that you have made a difference in a installers life and made him better for it, it feels even better when they come to you later and say "hey, you were a dick, but I got it and I'm better now for it"

I have seen it in 2 guys in the past few years and it makes me feel good..........

They rest of them can **** right off.........

^ I must not know those 2 guys - everyone I talk to just says yer a dick :laugh: :cheeky4:

"Wondering how a guy that works one day a week has so much opinion on the Install Standards in Canada..."

Hahahaha

People who like their bosses and coworkers tend to work far harder and care about the environment in which they work.
Have you thought theres possibly personality conflicts with you and your employees ?
You've done a good job of distinguishing between "us" (owners) and them (employes) and if your dealings with them are anything like our dealings, i can understand why you're in the position you're in.

and finally,
..... of course you're going to care more about it all when you have a vested interest in it :dunno:

I think shop owners need to take some blame for the US and THEM theory here. Its easy to wash your hands of this and blame installers, but at the end of the day the bosses/owners are the guys pressuring installers to be faster, paying less and expecting more.

Just a theory... at the end it doesn't affect me as i am neither US or THEM.

I think you are missing the point:

Namely, taking pride in your work.... I have worked in more than a few different jobs and seen more than my share of dog f*&kers... there is no excuse to bang the pooch -- pride is as pride does...

No one starts at the top, you have to earn your way there and THAT is the point, WTBs do not want to earn anything, they want mommy, daddy you and me to GIVE it to them.

Us is the people who care about quality work, They are the people who don't, it has nothing to do with owners and employee's.................

Theres a number of points you're making from dog ****ing to silver spoon. For argument sake, i will agree, read below.



Though i disagree with the last statement i do believe there are other variables that make one "care", i do agree with the overall sentiment that the quality in the field has gone down. I believe its seen everywhere from the trades to car audio.
An owner will always (generally) go that lil bit further to please a customer where as an employee doesnt care as long as he gets a fat pay cheque.
Passion and care isn't easily found, and when it is, usually shop owners are not willing to pay for it.

Being a owner has nothing to do with personal pride in what you do, I've been doing this for over 17 years and only two have been as a owner and I have always taken pride in doing a good job, it's all about pride and taking value in your reputation....

That's the problem. no one now adays care to even have a rep never mind trying to have a "good rep"

Question: How many people/customers follow you from shop to shop?

I have about fithteen of them programed into my cell from my AB days that drive out from Vancouver to Langley just to have me work on theirs cars. They trust me, and only want me to work on the cars. I take the time to understand their needs, want and what the want out of the system.

This has nothing to do about being the boss or not,,,,,,just personal pride in what you do each and every day in any tyoe of work you do. Thats is what I look for not only in a co-worker or an employee, but also life long freinds.

Again, i disagree, often times "caring" does come from where you sit in the hierarchy of things.
To find people who take pride and care as employees or volunteer staff is tough. You have the very select few who that regardless of pay want to learn more and will pay their dues to be the best and give 110%.
Then there are those (majority) who are employees who earn shitty wages, work shitty hours and based on those two things could care less if the trunk popper works 10/10 times, they just want their pay; 7 times out of 10 is good enough trunk poppin for them.
So yes, being an owner does make a difference. As an owner you care because warranty work costs time. Time costs money. You have no choice to care or else you end up out of business. For you, being the owner its of most importance to have employees who share the same values. Usually not likely unless you give them shares in the business or wicked pay (again, staff who care are hard to find unless certain things are in place).

Claudio, its true. People who do good work and are professional will always have their fans. I have mine, certain people I’d love to have work on my car, websites, etc.
Again, I’m not negating the fact that there aren't those people out there who care. But people with no vested interest are usually the ones that don't .

But to answer your question, how many follow me shop to shop. 0, im neither an installer or shop owner (don’t kick me from the void) 

So yes, there is a "US" and "THEM" scenario as Tim stats, but i think there are more reasons to the care freeness than just the way people were raised.
Having a dick of a boss is one reason people don’t care. Getting shitty pay, another reason. Never getting raises, another. The list can go on. You can argue "well then don’t work in the industry". Well I’m sure there are those out there who do it strictly for the pay, no other reason. They may be the ones cutting corners, no passion, don't care etc.

Anyways, this can go on forever. Maybe the industry needs to black list the shitty shops and installers ?

Maybe start an industry standards comity for Car Audio .

That is the whole point.............people who care and people who don't..............

Well, at the end of the day, I love doing what i do (for now)

It doesn't really matter where I work in the Car Audio Biz. And maybe in the near future the BS will final get to me(though people have told me I'm starting to crack now) I can tell you all now that I have come to a fork in the road with my life and have no respect nor patience for people (any people) that show the dis-respect I have seen on meany car audio forums.

I have good people working for me and with me that I respect. I have always tried to help out anyone who has asked for it with an open mind. But latley people in the Car Audio Indy and where I currently work at have stabbed me in the back and worst of all left me there with a knife in my back while they just went about their biz......but alwasy seem to call on me when they have a problem so i say again, you can all bite my shinny metal ass (you can quote me on that).

Consider this a forcoming, if you continue to dis-respect people......I will go out of my way to show you the same adittude towards you and encourage the rest of "us" to do the same thing. As I said before........If you are not part of the solution......you ARE the problem.

I was wondering where my knife was??!!?? there I go loosing tools again.
Hey tim was I one of the lucky few? you were a dick to me.

Yeah but mike, at least you were willing to stand up for change, unlike some people I know.

:appl: Well said Tim.

I am far from ever being able to call myself an installer but as a member of the industry, you put into words what I have often felt but was unable to articulate.

I am going to have a couple members of my car audio dept. read this tomorrow at work. Might even print it off and put it in the staff room and force them all to read it or else throat punches for the lot of them.:smilie_da

I always say theres nothing quite like a well placed throat punch.

All of you have made great points......and for the most part I agree.

As a manufacturers rep for the last 2 years.....rather than being on the retail side. It has scared the crap out of me at the quality of work, that I see coming from ALL kinds of shops out there........and it aint just the BOX stores.

It is brutal.......as far as the Car Audio biz goes. I cant believe the crap that is being churned out for $50-$80 hr. (depending on the shop)
Customers will no longer put up with it if it continues.....they can do that kind of crappy install themselves.

This does start at the top though !! As a manager of the various shops I worked at over the years, if I didn't think that the job leaving the shop was up to our standards.....it didn't leave the shop....period.

If a customer isn't willing to pay for your type of quality......then dont cut corners to do the job for what they are willing to spend. Because at the end of the day.....they'll tell their friends where the job was done......not what they paid......if you did a shitty job.....you get a shitty reputation. If you cut corners to get it done........then you cut the corners off your business. Dont discount your labour.........EVER !!
If the dude or dudette wont pay to do it right......let them walk!!

If your installers / salespeople aren't putting out what you want your shop to be perceived as......then its upto you to make sure that they are.

I see the same thing on the wholesale side too........I see reps that dont call on their accounts......or give a crap in general if the account is moving the product that they have sold them.
I'm not perfect, but I do think I bust my ass for the accounts that I deal with on a consistant basis.

I gave a killer lead to a competitive distributor of mine........because I couldn't sell the account because we had another dealer down the street.
They never even called the shop......nevermind go see them. This account could have done over $100,000 at cost in business with their brand.

Its frickin' scary.

We all need to work harder and better to keep people coming in our front doors, if we want to survive.

Tim.......great job on getting your message out.........lets see if we can get some guys thinking more about what they can do better.....rather than what they can do faster.

That was pretty rude.

Sorry Paul, I intended it as a joke, which I admit seems in poor taste now -- no offense was meant, it sounded more humorous in my head.

Thanks for the clarification Mike - I always think of you as friend, not foe, so I was a little :retard:

Should have known better - I owe you Guiness.

then clarify DUKK exactly who do you consider a foe?
I see a whole lot of people looking around for scapegoats but i think if we all soul search really deep we are ALL guilty of being THEM at some point.
even the thread starter.

Clarification of a Foe:

Anyone who questions the DUKK??

Holy man it is not all about you and like I said before, I am not attacking you per say just trying to spark some meaningful coversation so "we" can all learn from one another.

Very true, the THEM are the lazy ****s that are to lazy or to full of themselves to better themselves, learn more and improve.......

hahahaha, that sounded like a fortune cookie

You know if you add the phrase "Between the sheets" any fortune cookie will make more sense.

EG:

Very true, the THEM are the lazy ****s that are to lazy or to full of themselves to better themselves, learn more and improve.......Between the sheets.

See what I mean? :)

I'm just tired of egotistical asshats who are hacks and don't care about their work. It's killing the industry and driving customers away and they can all kiss my ass. I will keep calling them worthless hacks every chance I have.........

Here's a story...

In 1995 I was attending Rockford Fosgate school in Richmond, BC. I worked until 9:00 pm then drove to Vancouver from Kamloops. I arrived at 1:00 am, my boss at the time gave me time off with out pay and would not pay for any expenses etc. I slept in my car, because I am cheap, and in the morning school started at 9:00 am. I was washing up in the lobby washroom. Ron Trout, the vice president of Rockford corp. at the time, was washing his hands at the time. He asked me why I looked like , I told him about the past night and I would be sleeping in my car for the 2 day seminar. He took me out of dinner that night and bought me a hotel...the skills I learned at the school I was "testing" the skills the night when I got home, worked all night just to try the new techniques...on my own time...for free...if you think you would not do this or feel this is too much work...well Tim summed it up.

I am not bragging, but everyone has to pay your dues...I find rookies do not want to pay their dues...I am a sales rep and technique support. I still go to stores, work on cars for free in the evenings to better my skills and learn new things. I do not get directly paid for bettering myself...I do not see the style of expanding your skills anymore. Most employees think the employer owes them for working for them.

Most of the people who paid their dues and worked their way up are still around and making a living. The "what is in it for me" people come and go. But I still believe that there are great jobs out there for people with work ethic and drive...I know a dozen people looking for this kind of employee...

If a guy has paid there dues and have some skills, they can easily make $50,000 a year...and is worth every penny!!

I hope I do not offend anyone...cheers!

I am not a keyboard commando, if anyone want s discuss this, call me at 1-604-787-5935 ask for James.

Since when? :dunno: It's always all about me man :thumbsup: I f@ckin rock.
Humble too :appl:

James - that's because Ron Trout is a class act. I have nothing but respect for Ron :thumbsup:

:stroke: