Again, i disagree, often times "caring" does come from where you sit in the hierarchy of things.
To find people who take pride and care as employees or volunteer staff is tough. You have the very select few who that regardless of pay want to learn more and will pay their dues to be the best and give 110%.
Then there are those (majority) who are employees who earn shitty wages, work shitty hours and based on those two things could care less if the trunk popper works 10/10 times, they just want their pay; 7 times out of 10 is good enough trunk poppin for them.
So yes, being an owner does make a difference. As an owner you care because warranty work costs time. Time costs money. You have no choice to care or else you end up out of business. For you, being the owner its of most importance to have employees who share the same values. Usually not likely unless you give them shares in the business or wicked pay (again, staff who care are hard to find unless certain things are in place).

Claudio, its true. People who do good work and are professional will always have their fans. I have mine, certain people I’d love to have work on my car, websites, etc.
Again, I’m not negating the fact that there aren't those people out there who care. But people with no vested interest are usually the ones that don't .

But to answer your question, how many follow me shop to shop. 0, im neither an installer or shop owner (don’t kick me from the void) 

So yes, there is a "US" and "THEM" scenario as Tim stats, but i think there are more reasons to the care freeness than just the way people were raised.
Having a dick of a boss is one reason people don’t care. Getting shitty pay, another reason. Never getting raises, another. The list can go on. You can argue "well then don’t work in the industry". Well I’m sure there are those out there who do it strictly for the pay, no other reason. They may be the ones cutting corners, no passion, don't care etc.

Anyways, this can go on forever. Maybe the industry needs to black list the shitty shops and installers ?

Maybe start an industry standards comity for Car Audio .

That is the whole point.............people who care and people who don't..............

Well, at the end of the day, I love doing what i do (for now)

It doesn't really matter where I work in the Car Audio Biz. And maybe in the near future the BS will final get to me(though people have told me I'm starting to crack now) I can tell you all now that I have come to a fork in the road with my life and have no respect nor patience for people (any people) that show the dis-respect I have seen on meany car audio forums.

I have good people working for me and with me that I respect. I have always tried to help out anyone who has asked for it with an open mind. But latley people in the Car Audio Indy and where I currently work at have stabbed me in the back and worst of all left me there with a knife in my back while they just went about their biz......but alwasy seem to call on me when they have a problem so i say again, you can all bite my shinny metal ass (you can quote me on that).

Consider this a forcoming, if you continue to dis-respect people......I will go out of my way to show you the same adittude towards you and encourage the rest of "us" to do the same thing. As I said before........If you are not part of the solution......you ARE the problem.

I was wondering where my knife was??!!?? there I go loosing tools again.
Hey tim was I one of the lucky few? you were a dick to me.

Yeah but mike, at least you were willing to stand up for change, unlike some people I know.

:appl: Well said Tim.

I am far from ever being able to call myself an installer but as a member of the industry, you put into words what I have often felt but was unable to articulate.

I am going to have a couple members of my car audio dept. read this tomorrow at work. Might even print it off and put it in the staff room and force them all to read it or else throat punches for the lot of them.:smilie_da

I always say theres nothing quite like a well placed throat punch.

All of you have made great points......and for the most part I agree.

As a manufacturers rep for the last 2 years.....rather than being on the retail side. It has scared the crap out of me at the quality of work, that I see coming from ALL kinds of shops out there........and it aint just the BOX stores.

It is brutal.......as far as the Car Audio biz goes. I cant believe the crap that is being churned out for $50-$80 hr. (depending on the shop)
Customers will no longer put up with it if it continues.....they can do that kind of crappy install themselves.

This does start at the top though !! As a manager of the various shops I worked at over the years, if I didn't think that the job leaving the shop was up to our standards.....it didn't leave the shop....period.

If a customer isn't willing to pay for your type of quality......then dont cut corners to do the job for what they are willing to spend. Because at the end of the day.....they'll tell their friends where the job was done......not what they paid......if you did a shitty job.....you get a shitty reputation. If you cut corners to get it done........then you cut the corners off your business. Dont discount your labour.........EVER !!
If the dude or dudette wont pay to do it right......let them walk!!

If your installers / salespeople aren't putting out what you want your shop to be perceived as......then its upto you to make sure that they are.

I see the same thing on the wholesale side too........I see reps that dont call on their accounts......or give a crap in general if the account is moving the product that they have sold them.
I'm not perfect, but I do think I bust my ass for the accounts that I deal with on a consistant basis.

I gave a killer lead to a competitive distributor of mine........because I couldn't sell the account because we had another dealer down the street.
They never even called the shop......nevermind go see them. This account could have done over $100,000 at cost in business with their brand.

Its frickin' scary.

We all need to work harder and better to keep people coming in our front doors, if we want to survive.

Tim.......great job on getting your message out.........lets see if we can get some guys thinking more about what they can do better.....rather than what they can do faster.

That was pretty rude.

Sorry Paul, I intended it as a joke, which I admit seems in poor taste now -- no offense was meant, it sounded more humorous in my head.