Visonik sub amp: crap? or complete crap??
08-09-2010, 02:38 AM
#31
Yes you are checking voltage properly. Also compare when the car is running at the battery vs what the amp is seeing. Ideally you shouldn't loose more than .1-.2V
Try playing some music and measuring the voltage at the amp itself from it's terminals. See how badly it drops (if it does) when the bass is supposed to hit.
w/ your big 3, 4 gauge wire assuming the runs are short isn't too bad. I did mine w/ 2 gauge but I'm silly that way.
You said earlier that you had the subs wired up to the fronts so you could shift the balance that way so you could isolate just the subs? Ideally you should be using the S/W preout on your deck to feed the RCA input on your sub amp. If you aren't make sure the LPF is turned on on the amp, so it's not trying to reproduce anything above 80-100hz. I don't do anything above 50hz on my setup.
What kind of wiring are you using between the amp and the subs? if it's shitty low gauge wiring it can create additional resistance, and cause the amp to work harder than it needs to. In some cases you can heat the wire up to the point where it'll cause a fire.
Have you used your multimeter to determine that your sub is indeed running at the correct impedence? ex: not running at 1 or 8 ohms when your amp isn't rated for either. Check this by having your car off, and taking your DMM and setting it to Ohms, and then applying it to the speaker terminals on your sub amp. You should be seeing 2-4 Ohms.
To measure your RCA preout voltage, play a 50hz test tone w/ the deck at 3/4 volume, and put your multi meter on the RCA cable you'd plug into your amp. Ground is the collar, positive is the inside lead. Set your DMM to AC and put it into peak mode.
Also, what source are you using to listen to music? FM Radio? low quality mp3's? Your system might be working hard to produce a noise that isn't there..
It's just weird that you've had so many stupid issues.
Also: Until your car actually puts out enough bass to make your headlights dim, A cap/larger battery is pointless. Also, until your system works properly, a cap is definitely pointless. Caps are a good buffer, but if your alternator can't put out enough amperage then you'll eat through that buffer quickly. Same thing with a battery, it's just a larger buffer.
Finally, what kind of a box have you been putting these speakers in? I got a phenominal increase out of my type-r's after I took them out of the shitty prefab sealed enclosure.
I dunno what else dude, If you're headed out west let me know, I'll be more than happy to spend some time looking at it with you
Try playing some music and measuring the voltage at the amp itself from it's terminals. See how badly it drops (if it does) when the bass is supposed to hit.
w/ your big 3, 4 gauge wire assuming the runs are short isn't too bad. I did mine w/ 2 gauge but I'm silly that way.
You said earlier that you had the subs wired up to the fronts so you could shift the balance that way so you could isolate just the subs? Ideally you should be using the S/W preout on your deck to feed the RCA input on your sub amp. If you aren't make sure the LPF is turned on on the amp, so it's not trying to reproduce anything above 80-100hz. I don't do anything above 50hz on my setup.
What kind of wiring are you using between the amp and the subs? if it's shitty low gauge wiring it can create additional resistance, and cause the amp to work harder than it needs to. In some cases you can heat the wire up to the point where it'll cause a fire.
Have you used your multimeter to determine that your sub is indeed running at the correct impedence? ex: not running at 1 or 8 ohms when your amp isn't rated for either. Check this by having your car off, and taking your DMM and setting it to Ohms, and then applying it to the speaker terminals on your sub amp. You should be seeing 2-4 Ohms.
To measure your RCA preout voltage, play a 50hz test tone w/ the deck at 3/4 volume, and put your multi meter on the RCA cable you'd plug into your amp. Ground is the collar, positive is the inside lead. Set your DMM to AC and put it into peak mode.
Also, what source are you using to listen to music? FM Radio? low quality mp3's? Your system might be working hard to produce a noise that isn't there..
It's just weird that you've had so many stupid issues.
Also: Until your car actually puts out enough bass to make your headlights dim, A cap/larger battery is pointless. Also, until your system works properly, a cap is definitely pointless. Caps are a good buffer, but if your alternator can't put out enough amperage then you'll eat through that buffer quickly. Same thing with a battery, it's just a larger buffer.
Finally, what kind of a box have you been putting these speakers in? I got a phenominal increase out of my type-r's after I took them out of the shitty prefab sealed enclosure.
I dunno what else dude, If you're headed out west let me know, I'll be more than happy to spend some time looking at it with you
08-09-2010, 12:08 PM
#32
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 57
Thanks for your post, and your interest.
I can answer a couple of your questions before heading out to dick with the car. And maybe even take it to a shop (Shock! Horror!! as the British would say). Assuming I can find one that won't charge just for taking a look. I'm not cheap, just a little poor at the moment (house renovations; being married to the Crazy Cat Lady--20 at present including 7 foster kittens, and she just this minute announced that the Humane Society desperately needs someone to take in another pregnant mom; and the general state of the economy and the mistrust of financial advisors it has given rise to). Plus my wife and I have an agreement: after a point (long since passed), I'm not allowed to spend any actual money, which is why I've spent the past couple of months buying and selling equipment I know nothing about and haven't even listened to to scrape together a few extra bucks. Like, I bought a Type R in a box for a hundred bucks, sold the sub for $115 and kept the box (more about it later); bought a Pioneer sub in a box for 60 and a Fusion amp for 60, sold the lot for 175. I'm sure you all know how it works: its a bit of a sport, and like any sport there are rules. This is the process I like to have called "assembling my system". The next step, "installing my system" is where on the very first night I came a cropper (Britspeak again). So here we are. Oh yes, the agreement--my wife has promised, when I get things working, to build me a sub box to Alpine specs: sealed, out of 1-inch MDF, should be nice--she's good with her hands (easy there, boys). Of course I'll run the idea/plan past all you hosers if and when the time comes.
Anyway, back to sheptard's questions:
The 10-dollar Alpine doesn't have a dedicated sub out, just 2 sets of pre-outs which I assume are 2 volts, one of which is labelled "rear", the other "front/sub"--which is what I'm using. LPF on the amp is set at 80-100 Hz, near as I can figure.
Wire from the amp to the sub is an 8-foot run of Monster Cable subwoofer cable. Looks big and beefy but it's only 12-gauge, and it was 3 bucks at Princess Auto (maybe I am kinda cheap, but I'm pretty sure the electrons don't give a crap). Wire inside the box from the terminal cup to the sub is about a 2 foot length of some kind of Stinger interconnect--not ideal probably, but also looks to be about 12-gauge. Both these could be improved I guess, but I'd be hard-pressed to think they're the cause of my problems.
Just went out to the car to check the impedance on the Pioneer sub. With everything turned off, I put the probes on the speaker terminals at the amp end, then checked again at the sub end. In both cases it looks like (and I checked and re-checked) 0.5 Ohms. that can't be right, can it? I went back in the house and checked the Type X and got these readings (these are with no jumpers installed, and maybe I should be checking with jumpers in place?):
VC1+ to VC1- = 2.4
VC2+ to VC2- = 3.1
Not sure these ones matter but I took 'em, so here they are:
VC1+ to VC2- = 4.8
VC2+ to VC1- = 0.4
VC1+ to VC2+ = 2.4
VC1- to VC2- = 3.0
Not sure what this means, but I'm thinking the disparity in the first set on the Type X can't be right (shouldn't each coil, measured separately, be about the same?), and that the reading of 0.5 on the Pioneer can't be, either. Is it possible I've got it wired wrong? I have the positive leg of the speaker cable going to the positive terminal on one coil, with a jumper to the positive terminal on the other. Same thing on the negative side. That should be right (parallel?) to give me 2 Ohms, should it not? I mean, with dual 4-Ohm coils I can only wire it to either 2 or 8, correct? And I should be aiming for 2, no?
Haven't checked the voltage on the pre-out yet, but I have downloaded the test tone. I'll burn it to a CD-R and do that shortly.
I've been using a music CD to test so far: the wife's Black-Eyed Peas, coz it has such killer bass. I don't do MP3's--I'd rather listen to all my music, not 10 or 15 per cent of it.
And the box is a moderately shitty prefab: an Atrend 12SQV, about 1.3 cu/ft., vented, although ultimately I gather I want a sealed one (I suppose I lean much more toward SQ than SPL--no real interest in making my nose bleed, I just want to listen to music). It's not ideal, but I can't see it being the source of my problems. And like I said, CCL is on board to make me a better one. Right at the moment she's busy tiling the bathroom and breaking up catfights, so figure I'll just make her some tea and not bring it up.
That's all I can think of for now. I did just re-check some sub wiring diagrams and I think I've got it right for 2 Ohms.
Thanks again. I'm starting to feel like I'm getting somewhere. Not sure where, but I do know that here sucks big time.
I can answer a couple of your questions before heading out to dick with the car. And maybe even take it to a shop (Shock! Horror!! as the British would say). Assuming I can find one that won't charge just for taking a look. I'm not cheap, just a little poor at the moment (house renovations; being married to the Crazy Cat Lady--20 at present including 7 foster kittens, and she just this minute announced that the Humane Society desperately needs someone to take in another pregnant mom; and the general state of the economy and the mistrust of financial advisors it has given rise to). Plus my wife and I have an agreement: after a point (long since passed), I'm not allowed to spend any actual money, which is why I've spent the past couple of months buying and selling equipment I know nothing about and haven't even listened to to scrape together a few extra bucks. Like, I bought a Type R in a box for a hundred bucks, sold the sub for $115 and kept the box (more about it later); bought a Pioneer sub in a box for 60 and a Fusion amp for 60, sold the lot for 175. I'm sure you all know how it works: its a bit of a sport, and like any sport there are rules. This is the process I like to have called "assembling my system". The next step, "installing my system" is where on the very first night I came a cropper (Britspeak again). So here we are. Oh yes, the agreement--my wife has promised, when I get things working, to build me a sub box to Alpine specs: sealed, out of 1-inch MDF, should be nice--she's good with her hands (easy there, boys). Of course I'll run the idea/plan past all you hosers if and when the time comes.
Anyway, back to sheptard's questions:
The 10-dollar Alpine doesn't have a dedicated sub out, just 2 sets of pre-outs which I assume are 2 volts, one of which is labelled "rear", the other "front/sub"--which is what I'm using. LPF on the amp is set at 80-100 Hz, near as I can figure.
Wire from the amp to the sub is an 8-foot run of Monster Cable subwoofer cable. Looks big and beefy but it's only 12-gauge, and it was 3 bucks at Princess Auto (maybe I am kinda cheap, but I'm pretty sure the electrons don't give a crap). Wire inside the box from the terminal cup to the sub is about a 2 foot length of some kind of Stinger interconnect--not ideal probably, but also looks to be about 12-gauge. Both these could be improved I guess, but I'd be hard-pressed to think they're the cause of my problems.
Just went out to the car to check the impedance on the Pioneer sub. With everything turned off, I put the probes on the speaker terminals at the amp end, then checked again at the sub end. In both cases it looks like (and I checked and re-checked) 0.5 Ohms. that can't be right, can it? I went back in the house and checked the Type X and got these readings (these are with no jumpers installed, and maybe I should be checking with jumpers in place?):
VC1+ to VC1- = 2.4
VC2+ to VC2- = 3.1
Not sure these ones matter but I took 'em, so here they are:
VC1+ to VC2- = 4.8
VC2+ to VC1- = 0.4
VC1+ to VC2+ = 2.4
VC1- to VC2- = 3.0
Not sure what this means, but I'm thinking the disparity in the first set on the Type X can't be right (shouldn't each coil, measured separately, be about the same?), and that the reading of 0.5 on the Pioneer can't be, either. Is it possible I've got it wired wrong? I have the positive leg of the speaker cable going to the positive terminal on one coil, with a jumper to the positive terminal on the other. Same thing on the negative side. That should be right (parallel?) to give me 2 Ohms, should it not? I mean, with dual 4-Ohm coils I can only wire it to either 2 or 8, correct? And I should be aiming for 2, no?
Haven't checked the voltage on the pre-out yet, but I have downloaded the test tone. I'll burn it to a CD-R and do that shortly.
I've been using a music CD to test so far: the wife's Black-Eyed Peas, coz it has such killer bass. I don't do MP3's--I'd rather listen to all my music, not 10 or 15 per cent of it.
And the box is a moderately shitty prefab: an Atrend 12SQV, about 1.3 cu/ft., vented, although ultimately I gather I want a sealed one (I suppose I lean much more toward SQ than SPL--no real interest in making my nose bleed, I just want to listen to music). It's not ideal, but I can't see it being the source of my problems. And like I said, CCL is on board to make me a better one. Right at the moment she's busy tiling the bathroom and breaking up catfights, so figure I'll just make her some tea and not bring it up.
That's all I can think of for now. I did just re-check some sub wiring diagrams and I think I've got it right for 2 Ohms.
Thanks again. I'm starting to feel like I'm getting somewhere. Not sure where, but I do know that here sucks big time.
Last edited by dc23; 08-09-2010 at 05:13 PM.
08-11-2010, 10:34 AM
#33
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 57
NEWS FLASH! NOOB FIGURES IT OUT!!
So I figured it out. Not without the help of all of you and a little n-sanity on the side--but yes, the 54-year-old financial advisor and car audio newbie has got it sussed.
It's one of those good news/bad news things. The good news is I know what the problem is. The bad news is that I apparently have two defective subs, a lunched Phoenix gold amp, and wound up buying 2 more amps I didn't need to. The good news is that there's nothing wrong with the Visonik ('side from being cheap and ugly) or the M1000, and that I should still be able to use my Type X if I get yet another amp.
I did have the subs wired right for 2 Ohms. After checking the coils on the Pioneer and getting 0.5 I pulled the sub and checked each coil individually. I got 1.7 and 0.5--and the acceptable range is 3.5 to 4.5, right? I hooked up the good coil by itself thinking it might be close enough to a 2-Ohm load that the Visonik would drive it, and it did. I had bass. Not great, or a lot, but bass at last. No heat, no protection, just bass. I hooked up the bad coil expecting the worst and quickly got it: no bass, heat, protection. Clearly the Pioneer can only serve humanity as a planter.
Then I checked each coil on the Type X and got 3.1 and 2.4. Clearly out of spec. My Type X reduced to a type x. Hooked up one coil individually to the Visonik, then the other--and they both sounded fabulous. One at a time, they work. Together: world of hurt. And I should add that I've been astounded at just how good half a Type X sounds, even with just the Visonik driving it. I have yet to hook up the M1000, but now feel safe doing so, since a load of either 3.1 or 2.4 should be right in its wheelhouse.
So here's what I think has been going on. The Alpine's coils, wired together, were presenting a combined load of (according to n-sanity who's all about the Ohm's law stuff much better than me) 1.35 Ohms. Goodbye Phoenix Gold amp (though it would have been nice if it had just gone into protection and stopped working, like the others, instead of going all Mishima and self-destructing. Guess when they say something's not stable at less than 2 Ohms, they mean it), hello Visonik and M1000 won't drive it either.
In light of all this, it occurs to me that if I get rid of the Visonik and the M1000 and replace them with a honkin' big amp that's 1-Ohm stable I should be back in business. That basically I've got a Type X that's 1-Ohm and if I drive it accordingly I should be fine. I guess the only real concern is whether the disparity between the coils (3.1 and 2.4) is wide enough to be a concern or if with them wired in parallel the amp will only see the final load of 1.35 and that's all that matters. Anybody think that should be an issue?
So, anybody out there got a nice, beefy, 1-Ohm stable amp they'd like to trade for an Alpine M1000 that's 4 months old, looks brand new, is still under warranty and comes with its bill of sale? If it's a really good one I can throw in the Visonik. It ain't pretty but it seems to function perfectly.
So I've hooked up the Visonik to the 2.4 coil on the X and been listening for a day or so now. I get it again. I've been driving around with the meter hooked up to it and my voltage has been pretty much steady right around 14, even with the lights and the a/c on. Sometimes it'll dip into the 13.9s on a bass hit, but no perceptible dimming of headlights or anything. I can't wait to hear what the Type X sounds like with both coils working.
So there we have it: seems to me I can keep the Type X and be happy as long as I get the right amp to drive it with. The guy I bought the M1000 from is imploring me not to sell it--to hook it up to the X in series which he contends should give me a 4-Ohm load and be workable, since the M1000 is rated for 600 watts at 4. Pretty sure he's wrong on most counts, since one of the things I've learned is that a dual 4-Ohm coil sub can only be wired to 2 or 8. Ohm's law would seem to dictate that the combined impedance of the coils in series would be 5.5, at which the M1000 would be putting out, what? 400? 450? Pretty sure that won't work. At least not nearly as well as something with about 12-15 hundred watts and 1-Ohm stable.
Picking up the Pioneer sub to frig with and resolve my issues didn't help and only confused things further because it also was f*cked in the first place. Pretty sure the guy I bought it from will take it back, since we did discuss that and I can test the coils in front of him. It was apparently part of a skid of returns and old stock he picked up on the cheap from Best Buy. It did have a sticker on it saying "defect" which I pointed out to him that I was concerned about. Now I guess I know why. I thought it was because there was a scuff on the dust cap. I may be able to trade it for a pair of Energy 5.25 in. components he also has (you all were raving about them on here about 3 years ago), to replace my a/d/s 300i back speakers while I decide whether to re-cone them or not--but be assured I will test them, hook them up and listen to them before I leave his driveway. Gotta wonder about Best Buy. If somebody brings back a sub that's not working because the coils are way out of spec shouldn't they, oh I don't know, send it back to Pioneer? Instead of just unloading it on some poor slob who knows nothing about car audio and just wants to make a few bucks?
The other issue is this: did a kid from Brighton sell me a Type X sub that he knew had issues? And set off a chain of events that destroyed my Phoenix Gold amp and ended up with me buying two more amps and another sub that I didn't need to? Or could he have been using it with a 1-Ohm stable amp all along and never knew there was a problem? This I have to wrestle with and avoid going off half-cocked. If he did rip me off I may wind up driving to Brighton and knocking on his parents' door to ask them what kind of son they're trying to raise. On the other hand maybe he was oblivious and I should have known to (as I do now) check the coils before handing over any money.
So any ideas out there? Have I been the victim of a scammer with braces--or of my own noobishness? Do I let it go or go find the kid and demand half my money back--since I wound up with half a sub, at least until I find the right amp? I've been asking for your guidance on technical issues and that's gone well. Now I need your help on a moral one.
Anybody wanna buy my M1000? Or trade it for a 1-Ohm stable monster amp?
So I figured it out. Not without the help of all of you and a little n-sanity on the side--but yes, the 54-year-old financial advisor and car audio newbie has got it sussed.
It's one of those good news/bad news things. The good news is I know what the problem is. The bad news is that I apparently have two defective subs, a lunched Phoenix gold amp, and wound up buying 2 more amps I didn't need to. The good news is that there's nothing wrong with the Visonik ('side from being cheap and ugly) or the M1000, and that I should still be able to use my Type X if I get yet another amp.
I did have the subs wired right for 2 Ohms. After checking the coils on the Pioneer and getting 0.5 I pulled the sub and checked each coil individually. I got 1.7 and 0.5--and the acceptable range is 3.5 to 4.5, right? I hooked up the good coil by itself thinking it might be close enough to a 2-Ohm load that the Visonik would drive it, and it did. I had bass. Not great, or a lot, but bass at last. No heat, no protection, just bass. I hooked up the bad coil expecting the worst and quickly got it: no bass, heat, protection. Clearly the Pioneer can only serve humanity as a planter.
Then I checked each coil on the Type X and got 3.1 and 2.4. Clearly out of spec. My Type X reduced to a type x. Hooked up one coil individually to the Visonik, then the other--and they both sounded fabulous. One at a time, they work. Together: world of hurt. And I should add that I've been astounded at just how good half a Type X sounds, even with just the Visonik driving it. I have yet to hook up the M1000, but now feel safe doing so, since a load of either 3.1 or 2.4 should be right in its wheelhouse.
So here's what I think has been going on. The Alpine's coils, wired together, were presenting a combined load of (according to n-sanity who's all about the Ohm's law stuff much better than me) 1.35 Ohms. Goodbye Phoenix Gold amp (though it would have been nice if it had just gone into protection and stopped working, like the others, instead of going all Mishima and self-destructing. Guess when they say something's not stable at less than 2 Ohms, they mean it), hello Visonik and M1000 won't drive it either.
In light of all this, it occurs to me that if I get rid of the Visonik and the M1000 and replace them with a honkin' big amp that's 1-Ohm stable I should be back in business. That basically I've got a Type X that's 1-Ohm and if I drive it accordingly I should be fine. I guess the only real concern is whether the disparity between the coils (3.1 and 2.4) is wide enough to be a concern or if with them wired in parallel the amp will only see the final load of 1.35 and that's all that matters. Anybody think that should be an issue?
So, anybody out there got a nice, beefy, 1-Ohm stable amp they'd like to trade for an Alpine M1000 that's 4 months old, looks brand new, is still under warranty and comes with its bill of sale? If it's a really good one I can throw in the Visonik. It ain't pretty but it seems to function perfectly.
So I've hooked up the Visonik to the 2.4 coil on the X and been listening for a day or so now. I get it again. I've been driving around with the meter hooked up to it and my voltage has been pretty much steady right around 14, even with the lights and the a/c on. Sometimes it'll dip into the 13.9s on a bass hit, but no perceptible dimming of headlights or anything. I can't wait to hear what the Type X sounds like with both coils working.
So there we have it: seems to me I can keep the Type X and be happy as long as I get the right amp to drive it with. The guy I bought the M1000 from is imploring me not to sell it--to hook it up to the X in series which he contends should give me a 4-Ohm load and be workable, since the M1000 is rated for 600 watts at 4. Pretty sure he's wrong on most counts, since one of the things I've learned is that a dual 4-Ohm coil sub can only be wired to 2 or 8. Ohm's law would seem to dictate that the combined impedance of the coils in series would be 5.5, at which the M1000 would be putting out, what? 400? 450? Pretty sure that won't work. At least not nearly as well as something with about 12-15 hundred watts and 1-Ohm stable.
Picking up the Pioneer sub to frig with and resolve my issues didn't help and only confused things further because it also was f*cked in the first place. Pretty sure the guy I bought it from will take it back, since we did discuss that and I can test the coils in front of him. It was apparently part of a skid of returns and old stock he picked up on the cheap from Best Buy. It did have a sticker on it saying "defect" which I pointed out to him that I was concerned about. Now I guess I know why. I thought it was because there was a scuff on the dust cap. I may be able to trade it for a pair of Energy 5.25 in. components he also has (you all were raving about them on here about 3 years ago), to replace my a/d/s 300i back speakers while I decide whether to re-cone them or not--but be assured I will test them, hook them up and listen to them before I leave his driveway. Gotta wonder about Best Buy. If somebody brings back a sub that's not working because the coils are way out of spec shouldn't they, oh I don't know, send it back to Pioneer? Instead of just unloading it on some poor slob who knows nothing about car audio and just wants to make a few bucks?
The other issue is this: did a kid from Brighton sell me a Type X sub that he knew had issues? And set off a chain of events that destroyed my Phoenix Gold amp and ended up with me buying two more amps and another sub that I didn't need to? Or could he have been using it with a 1-Ohm stable amp all along and never knew there was a problem? This I have to wrestle with and avoid going off half-cocked. If he did rip me off I may wind up driving to Brighton and knocking on his parents' door to ask them what kind of son they're trying to raise. On the other hand maybe he was oblivious and I should have known to (as I do now) check the coils before handing over any money.
So any ideas out there? Have I been the victim of a scammer with braces--or of my own noobishness? Do I let it go or go find the kid and demand half my money back--since I wound up with half a sub, at least until I find the right amp? I've been asking for your guidance on technical issues and that's gone well. Now I need your help on a moral one.
Anybody wanna buy my M1000? Or trade it for a 1-Ohm stable monster amp?
Last edited by dc23; 08-11-2010 at 12:30 PM. Reason: added question about the disparity in the Alpine's coils
08-12-2010, 01:04 AM
#34
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 912
your type x is kinda wonky too. the impedances should be much closer together. My guess is that the previous owner 1/2 cooked one coil, and now they are way off. getting an amp that will run a 1 ohm load may be an option, but Personally I think you are headed back for disaster. btw, If you would have said from the start that the pioneer sub said "defect" on it when you got it, it quite possibly could've saved you some time and headaches...
side note, if used gear is for sale for cheap, there is usually a reason. unfortunatly, you had found this out the hard way. Even if someone is upgrading to something new, they are still going to want some money back out of their GOOD gear.
IMO, I would keep th m1000, and look into getting a replacement sub that works correctly, sell the cheaper amps, and find someone interested in the type x as-is.
glad you have some issues sorted out.
I tell this to alot of newbies, cause we've all been in your position at some time or another.....SAVE your pennies. buy, sell, trade, whatever, untill you have enough to buy NEW gear. and don't get antsy and pick up the first $88 special that comes up @ bestbuy. do some reasearch, and buy some GOOD NEW gear that will last. A single type r 12 on sale will run around $200. the m1000 will be a GREAT match for it. they are an impressive sub for the cost, and will take small amounts of power all the way to large, and sound good. lotsa bass, and clarity. all around best bang for the buck IMO. We've had 5000 watts hooked to one and competed for a season and it didn't blow....
in conclusion, as always, BUYER BEWARE. good luck, and cudos to you for sticking to it!!
side note, if used gear is for sale for cheap, there is usually a reason. unfortunatly, you had found this out the hard way. Even if someone is upgrading to something new, they are still going to want some money back out of their GOOD gear.
IMO, I would keep th m1000, and look into getting a replacement sub that works correctly, sell the cheaper amps, and find someone interested in the type x as-is.
glad you have some issues sorted out.
I tell this to alot of newbies, cause we've all been in your position at some time or another.....SAVE your pennies. buy, sell, trade, whatever, untill you have enough to buy NEW gear. and don't get antsy and pick up the first $88 special that comes up @ bestbuy. do some reasearch, and buy some GOOD NEW gear that will last. A single type r 12 on sale will run around $200. the m1000 will be a GREAT match for it. they are an impressive sub for the cost, and will take small amounts of power all the way to large, and sound good. lotsa bass, and clarity. all around best bang for the buck IMO. We've had 5000 watts hooked to one and competed for a season and it didn't blow....
in conclusion, as always, BUYER BEWARE. good luck, and cudos to you for sticking to it!!
08-12-2010, 02:33 AM
#35
I got my type r's for $159/ea open box from visions but they never saw power (supposedly) best $320 I've *EVER* spent.
visions will have them on sale for $189 occasionally I think, and most places if you go in and haggle will part with a type r for cheaper. I love my type R's however it seems I've hit their limit w/ 600W per sub, either that or I need to find a second M1A. or just replace my alternator and see what the amp does w/ proper voltage (14.4, not <13.94)
</rant> Glad to hear you got it sorted out man. Keep that m1000 it's a great amp and use it to drive some BRAND NEW IN BOX type r's.
visions will have them on sale for $189 occasionally I think, and most places if you go in and haggle will part with a type r for cheaper. I love my type R's however it seems I've hit their limit w/ 600W per sub, either that or I need to find a second M1A. or just replace my alternator and see what the amp does w/ proper voltage (14.4, not <13.94)
</rant> Glad to hear you got it sorted out man. Keep that m1000 it's a great amp and use it to drive some BRAND NEW IN BOX type r's.
08-12-2010, 10:29 AM
#36
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 57
So I guess it's coming down to a pretty clear-cut issue now.
Option 1: keep the sub and dump the amp
Option 2: keep the amp and dump the sub
So far it would appear to be running 2-0 in favour of option 2. I wouldn't mind a few more viewpoints. Anybody in favour of keeping the sub and getting the right amp to power it? Anybody who can outline just what the dangers are in holding onto and attempting to drive a Type X with admittedly wonky coils, but which seems to sound amazing even running on just one coil? Yes both coils are out of spec, and yes, the discrepancy between 3.1 and 2.4 does seem on the high side, but what, specifically, is wrong with this idea? I mean, exactly what could go wrong in terms of the actual nature of the disaster I could be headed for if I pursue option 1? I'm not being pissy because you don't like the idea, I'm genuinely asking. What's the worst that could happen?
This is a big and a tough decision. There's just something about the sound of the Type X even on just one coil that thrills me to the core and I want more of that. However also keep in mind the sad admission that at 54 years of age, this is about the first time I've ever really heard any subwoofer in any car, let alone my own.
This also comes to mind: As I understand it the accepted range of impedance for a 4-Ohm voice coil is 3.5 to 4.5, which is a difference of one full Ohm. And that, conceivably, a brand new sub could come from the factory with one coil at 4.5 and the other at 3.5 and still be considered in spec and perfectly acceptable. The discrepancy on my Type X is 0.6 Ohms, well within that range. Of course, one deviates by 0.9 Ohms, the other by 1.6. I guess we could say the average deviation is 1.25, way more than I suppose the acceptable deviation would be if we consider that to be 0.5.
What's the more important issue? The degree to which they are out of spec relative to each other, or relative to 4 Ohms? Any further thoughts from anyone? I'd really appreciate getting as much input as possible before I make what has to be the best-informed decision I can.
Option 1: keep the sub and dump the amp
Option 2: keep the amp and dump the sub
So far it would appear to be running 2-0 in favour of option 2. I wouldn't mind a few more viewpoints. Anybody in favour of keeping the sub and getting the right amp to power it? Anybody who can outline just what the dangers are in holding onto and attempting to drive a Type X with admittedly wonky coils, but which seems to sound amazing even running on just one coil? Yes both coils are out of spec, and yes, the discrepancy between 3.1 and 2.4 does seem on the high side, but what, specifically, is wrong with this idea? I mean, exactly what could go wrong in terms of the actual nature of the disaster I could be headed for if I pursue option 1? I'm not being pissy because you don't like the idea, I'm genuinely asking. What's the worst that could happen?
This is a big and a tough decision. There's just something about the sound of the Type X even on just one coil that thrills me to the core and I want more of that. However also keep in mind the sad admission that at 54 years of age, this is about the first time I've ever really heard any subwoofer in any car, let alone my own.
This also comes to mind: As I understand it the accepted range of impedance for a 4-Ohm voice coil is 3.5 to 4.5, which is a difference of one full Ohm. And that, conceivably, a brand new sub could come from the factory with one coil at 4.5 and the other at 3.5 and still be considered in spec and perfectly acceptable. The discrepancy on my Type X is 0.6 Ohms, well within that range. Of course, one deviates by 0.9 Ohms, the other by 1.6. I guess we could say the average deviation is 1.25, way more than I suppose the acceptable deviation would be if we consider that to be 0.5.
What's the more important issue? The degree to which they are out of spec relative to each other, or relative to 4 Ohms? Any further thoughts from anyone? I'd really appreciate getting as much input as possible before I make what has to be the best-informed decision I can.
08-12-2010, 11:13 AM
#38
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 57
OK, so now 3-0. Anyone else want to weigh in?
Also, what are the chances anyone would want to buy the Type X, knowing it has issues? I would only sell it on a full disclosure basis. Think anyone else would want to take it on? I'd hate to wind up stuck with it and a dead PG. We only have so many doors. Lots of paper, mind you.
Also, what are the chances anyone would want to buy the Type X, knowing it has issues? I would only sell it on a full disclosure basis. Think anyone else would want to take it on? I'd hate to wind up stuck with it and a dead PG. We only have so many doors. Lots of paper, mind you.
08-12-2010, 11:44 AM
#40
50 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 57
Hey. Maybe I can make this guy's day:
Wanted: all Unwanted subs and amps - Belleville Audio, GPS For Sale - Kijiji Belleville Canada.
4-0 and counting for option 1. All the input is much appreciated. Keep those cards and letters coming in!
Unsettling pattern here: seems I'm developing a disturbing habit of picking up exotic used equipment, having it work just long enough to fall in love with it--and then it goes all to f*ck. As Charlie Brown would say: "Aaaaauuuugh!" Lotta football snatcher-awayers out there.
Wanted: all Unwanted subs and amps - Belleville Audio, GPS For Sale - Kijiji Belleville Canada.
4-0 and counting for option 1. All the input is much appreciated. Keep those cards and letters coming in!
Unsettling pattern here: seems I'm developing a disturbing habit of picking up exotic used equipment, having it work just long enough to fall in love with it--and then it goes all to f*ck. As Charlie Brown would say: "Aaaaauuuugh!" Lotta football snatcher-awayers out there.
Last edited by dc23; 08-12-2010 at 11:49 AM.
