W7 vs concept CSP-15...
09-12-2003, 12:12 PM
#11
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 342
Originally posted by cujo:
There is no comparison. Concept is just that, a concept. JL spent more time doing r&d on the W7 than Concept has been in business. Concept builds their subs with parts from the CES woofer buffet.
There is no comparison. Concept is just that, a concept. JL spent more time doing r&d on the W7 than Concept has been in business. Concept builds their subs with parts from the CES woofer buffet.
09-12-2003, 01:06 PM
#13
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 342
Originally posted by Dukk:
Opinion
The W7 is an incredible piece of engineering. I'd love to have one given to me.
The CSP is a great woofer. I'd buy one. In fact I'd take the extra $$$ that the W7 was gonna cost and buy more power.
Opinion
The W7 is an incredible piece of engineering. I'd love to have one given to me.
The CSP is a great woofer. I'd buy one. In fact I'd take the extra $$$ that the W7 was gonna cost and buy more power.
09-12-2003, 11:19 PM
#14
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 548
Originally posted by t raver1 smith:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by cujo:
There is no comparison. Concept is just that, a concept. JL spent more time doing r&d on the W7 than Concept has been in business. Concept builds their subs with parts from the CES woofer buffet.
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by cujo:
There is no comparison. Concept is just that, a concept. JL spent more time doing r&d on the W7 than Concept has been in business. Concept builds their subs with parts from the CES woofer buffet.
http://www.twice.com/index.asp?layout=story_stocks&articleid=CA312041&d isplay=sectionStory&verticalid=320&industry=Mobile +Electronics&pubdate=07/21/2003&STT=001&industryid=%industr yid%
Not bad for a company that you laughed at. Also, how did these woofers "beat" the CSP? Did you use the voodoo RTA, that most people would call an ear?
Another thing, how is the W7 OVERmarketed? The only way something can be overmarketed is if it dosen't sell enough to cover the ad dollars. Not a problem in JL's case.
I am sick of people saying that just because it's more expensive than "xyz" woofer, it's not worth the money. The only thing that's correct about that statement is that it's more expensive than most, and for justified reasons. Name me one other woofer with 2 patents on it's technology let alone 7 (with more pending)
All about value. You can buy a Ford that goes faster than a BMW, but that dosen't make it a better car. Some things are built better, and for a reason. Not seeing the value in something isn't a reason to slam it.
Other than price, give me one downfall of a W7.
09-12-2003, 11:31 PM
#15
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 548
Another thing,
I don't think you understood my reference to CES. At the Consumer Electronics Show every year, the Asian manufacturers bring their catalog and parts, allowing you to build 95% of the woofers on the market in your basement.
I gaurantee you that Concept does NOT build the parts that go into their woofers. They may assemble them and test them for specs later, but they didn't design them with a perticular purpose in mind like JL. As mentioned before, JL build's the whole bastard except for a few bolts.
One last thing, as far as the W7 being OVERmarketed. Most of these woofers that you "test" and swear are better than the W7 wouldn't exist without the W7. JL had the ***** to build the best woofer on the planet and when people started buying them in quantity, other companies followed suit with their W7 "killer". Jl deserves a tremedous amount of respect for that alone. They upped the level for everybody.
I don't think you understood my reference to CES. At the Consumer Electronics Show every year, the Asian manufacturers bring their catalog and parts, allowing you to build 95% of the woofers on the market in your basement.
I gaurantee you that Concept does NOT build the parts that go into their woofers. They may assemble them and test them for specs later, but they didn't design them with a perticular purpose in mind like JL. As mentioned before, JL build's the whole bastard except for a few bolts.
One last thing, as far as the W7 being OVERmarketed. Most of these woofers that you "test" and swear are better than the W7 wouldn't exist without the W7. JL had the ***** to build the best woofer on the planet and when people started buying them in quantity, other companies followed suit with their W7 "killer". Jl deserves a tremedous amount of respect for that alone. They upped the level for everybody.
09-13-2003, 12:09 AM
#16
2000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,474
IMO it's almost like JL's costs for making the w7 got out of hand, and they are making consumers pay for it(not our fault). There were already comparable subs out long before the w7 that were raising the bar. If w7's are that much better than the subs I've used, I would have bought some already. If anyone with w7's wants to stop by my place sometime that would be cool.
[img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]
[img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]
09-13-2003, 05:31 AM
#17
Yankee
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 385
Originally posted by Gilligans Hitch:
IMO it's almost like JL's costs for making the w7 got out of hand, and they are making consumers pay for it(not our fault). There were already comparable subs out long before the w7 that were raising the bar. If w7's are that much better than the subs I've used, I would have bought some already. If anyone with w7's wants to stop by my place sometime that would be cool.
[img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]
IMO it's almost like JL's costs for making the w7 got out of hand, and they are making consumers pay for it(not our fault). There were already comparable subs out long before the w7 that were raising the bar. If w7's are that much better than the subs I've used, I would have bought some already. If anyone with w7's wants to stop by my place sometime that would be cool.
[img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]
If you think JL's costs to make the W7(which include a ton of R&D, tooling of most of the parts) then fine, but a company is going to pass on those costs to the consumer. Who else would pay for that? I certainly can't say to a BMW dealer, "well, it isn't my problem that your engineers spent so much designing this car, why do I have to pay for it?" Each person decides how much they are willing to pay for a certain product. If you think the W7 is too expensive then you simply don't buy it. I bought a 12W6V2 instead. I think it is a better fit for what I need(and don't need).
09-13-2003, 07:07 AM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
"I gaurantee you that Concept does NOT build the parts that go into their woofers. They may assemble them and test them for specs later, but they didn't design them with a perticular purpose in mind like JL. As mentioned before, JL build's the whole bastard except for a few bolts."
May seem petty, but you are wrong on both statements.
Concept does not manufacture their specific parts BUT the assembled parts ARE the design and some items are indeed proprietary, ie built soley for their woofers <- relatively common in the manufacturing game. This is referring to woofers.
JL audio does not specifically manufacture every part of a W7 "except for a few parts". Again they have parts made specifically for them. The parts are merely more specialized, and anytime you have specialization you have increased parts costs. It is completely cost prohibitive however for a manufacturer to physically make every part.
The W7 is a great woofer. It has a great cost.
May seem petty, but you are wrong on both statements.
Concept does not manufacture their specific parts BUT the assembled parts ARE the design and some items are indeed proprietary, ie built soley for their woofers <- relatively common in the manufacturing game. This is referring to woofers.
JL audio does not specifically manufacture every part of a W7 "except for a few parts". Again they have parts made specifically for them. The parts are merely more specialized, and anytime you have specialization you have increased parts costs. It is completely cost prohibitive however for a manufacturer to physically make every part.
The W7 is a great woofer. It has a great cost.
09-13-2003, 08:58 AM
#20
the share output of the w7 under 80 hz is pretty damn strong, control and linearity not to mention power compression is the best ive come across with the w7.
Now multiple drivers yes will be louder etc, other subs do get louder, egh but man oh man a single w7 has more than enough output than most can ever need or want.
now come on guys, we all know that $800.00- $2000.00 is alot for a single sub, however purolate that price over the many years that it will perform for. now the price doesnt seem all that bad. plus we all know they can be had cheaper than that.
Its a remarkable piece of engineering, and just an inverse statement to mikes statement. If i heard a sub better than the w7 i would have owned it already
Kriston
Now multiple drivers yes will be louder etc, other subs do get louder, egh but man oh man a single w7 has more than enough output than most can ever need or want.
now come on guys, we all know that $800.00- $2000.00 is alot for a single sub, however purolate that price over the many years that it will perform for. now the price doesnt seem all that bad. plus we all know they can be had cheaper than that.
Its a remarkable piece of engineering, and just an inverse statement to mikes statement. If i heard a sub better than the w7 i would have owned it already
Kriston
