Cheating
10-10-2005, 10:44 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have heard that there was some pretty hardcore cheating by a certain competitor at finals, and that when Ray Choy found it he just had the competitor fix the offending mod, and then go compete, when it should have been an automatic DQ. WHat do you guys think about this?
10-11-2005, 05:44 AM
#5
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,692
well cheating is no good.... definitely agree with that point. but as a judge ive seen many things that constitute "not allowed behavior" some judges allow it some don't. but yes at a final 4x event. all of them know exactly what is allowed and not allowed.
this battery thing eludes me as im not familiar with this practise, but don't guys mod thier amps anyways and change the way thier amps work anyways? isnt modding allowed? unless you mean that it sends them over 18 volt? is that why this battery was in there?
this battery thing eludes me as im not familiar with this practise, but don't guys mod thier amps anyways and change the way thier amps work anyways? isnt modding allowed? unless you mean that it sends them over 18 volt? is that why this battery was in there?
10-11-2005, 06:45 AM
#6
Originally posted by Team Shadow:
well cheating is no good.... definitely agree with that point. but as a judge ive seen many things that constitute "not allowed behavior" some judges allow it some don't. but yes at a final 4x event. all of them know exactly what is allowed and not allowed.
this battery thing eludes me as im not familiar with this practise, but don't guys mod thier amps anyways and change the way thier amps work anyways? isnt modding allowed? unless you mean that it sends them over 18 volt? is that why this battery was in there?
well cheating is no good.... definitely agree with that point. but as a judge ive seen many things that constitute "not allowed behavior" some judges allow it some don't. but yes at a final 4x event. all of them know exactly what is allowed and not allowed.
this battery thing eludes me as im not familiar with this practise, but don't guys mod thier amps anyways and change the way thier amps work anyways? isnt modding allowed? unless you mean that it sends them over 18 volt? is that why this battery was in there?
adding an extra battery is flat out cheating IMHO and he should have been DQ'd immediately.
I find it hard to believe that it was ONLY Ray who would have a say in whether or not he could still compete but it's very disapointing.
10-11-2005, 06:51 AM
#7
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,093
i'm not 100% sure on the cheating issues at worlds this year.... but i do know that some of the competitors were not happy with certain judgement calls. I will not post anythign incriminating on here, as it's not my place to name any faces, or ppl who have said what!
Ray Choy did an Excellant job this year! Congrats to him on being named head judge this year at the 2005 World Fianls!
Livin Loud
Ray Choy did an Excellant job this year! Congrats to him on being named head judge this year at the 2005 World Fianls!
Livin Loud
10-11-2005, 07:08 AM
#8
There are a few different ways to look at this.. I mean I know of several competitors who were "cheating" without cheating.. meaning their vehicle was not within the rules (without them knowing), and they were given a chance to fix this. This could happen to anyone, the few people I know that this happened to did not have the slightest idea that they weren't within the rules.
Then of coarse there are the other people who attempt to bend/break the rules.
The problem is, who do you give the chance to fix, and who do you just DQ. I mean anyone can just say they didn't know, but how many of them will be telling the truth?
How do you tell who is trying to cheat and who has something which fractures the rules without knowing?
I support Ray's decision on this matter, he was fair with everyone from what I saw and heard. Anyone who's vehicle fractured or broke the rules - he gave them a chance to fix the infacturement so they could still compete. Can you imagine how many pissed off people there would be if they didn't do this? (this would be almost half of the competitors).
Although it appears the vehicle/competitor who got caught with the battery was blatently trying to cheat, everyone else was allowed to fix thier vehicles to adhere to the rules, it would be too hard to justify why one person was dq'd, but not the rest.
Sorry for the rants
Then of coarse there are the other people who attempt to bend/break the rules.
The problem is, who do you give the chance to fix, and who do you just DQ. I mean anyone can just say they didn't know, but how many of them will be telling the truth?
How do you tell who is trying to cheat and who has something which fractures the rules without knowing?
I support Ray's decision on this matter, he was fair with everyone from what I saw and heard. Anyone who's vehicle fractured or broke the rules - he gave them a chance to fix the infacturement so they could still compete. Can you imagine how many pissed off people there would be if they didn't do this? (this would be almost half of the competitors).
Although it appears the vehicle/competitor who got caught with the battery was blatently trying to cheat, everyone else was allowed to fix thier vehicles to adhere to the rules, it would be too hard to justify why one person was dq'd, but not the rest.
Sorry for the rants
10-11-2005, 07:59 AM
#9
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,692
sorry for a sec there i was in extreme mode. now i realize that it was a stock issue.
i've seen this before. in no way would i mention a name but in iasca it is different. 1 batt per amp.
do you think that it was a competitor who competes in more than one sanction or was it a straight out cheater?
no names...im just curious as to the situation.
personally i guess it mattered on the competitor. if it was a first time competitor or a seasoned db drag hard core. but i would probably allow the person to fix the problem but i would do a complete check of all voltages and wiring on a competitor that is doing something ... not up to par. i've been thru the inspection process only because our car was not built for a certain sanction. i would have hated to be disco'd over something , i would have appreciated the chance to fix it. or decide to move up a class.(which in the end i did)
but i can only asume that ray c would want to have that competitor save face maybe. he is a nice guy so i can't picture him being a totalitarianism.. hard one to call. but megahz post below does give validity to the disco if it would have happened. the guy shows ray the batt which might make it a legit mistake. maybe
[ October 11, 2005, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: Team Shadow ]
i've seen this before. in no way would i mention a name but in iasca it is different. 1 batt per amp.
do you think that it was a competitor who competes in more than one sanction or was it a straight out cheater?
no names...im just curious as to the situation.
personally i guess it mattered on the competitor. if it was a first time competitor or a seasoned db drag hard core. but i would probably allow the person to fix the problem but i would do a complete check of all voltages and wiring on a competitor that is doing something ... not up to par. i've been thru the inspection process only because our car was not built for a certain sanction. i would have hated to be disco'd over something , i would have appreciated the chance to fix it. or decide to move up a class.(which in the end i did)
but i can only asume that ray c would want to have that competitor save face maybe. he is a nice guy so i can't picture him being a totalitarianism.. hard one to call. but megahz post below does give validity to the disco if it would have happened. the guy shows ray the batt which might make it a legit mistake. maybe
[ October 11, 2005, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: Team Shadow ]
10-11-2005, 08:50 AM
#10
Originally posted by MegaHurtz:
The judge is allowed some discretion, maybe he didn't want to just straight DQ the guy, since AFAIK he came from Europe to compete. But still travelling that far he should have known to have everything in order and not take any chances, knowing the event that he is going to.
However, the rules say:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />11-4 If a rules infraction is discovered during the course of the competition, the competitor may be disqualified from the event based on the severity of the infraction and the current status of the competition.
11-5 If the rule violation is an honest, minor infraction, the officiating staff may issue a warning and then ask the offending competitor to take the appropriate action in order to address the violation. If the infraction is exposed prior to the elimination rounds of competition, the competitor’s qualifying score shall be nullified and the competitor may be allowed to re-qualify once the infraction is rectified. If the infraction is discovered during the elimination rounds of competition, the offending competitor shall be disqualified from the event.
11-6 If the rule violation is an honest, major infraction, the offending competitor shall be disqualified from the event.
The judge is allowed some discretion, maybe he didn't want to just straight DQ the guy, since AFAIK he came from Europe to compete. But still travelling that far he should have known to have everything in order and not take any chances, knowing the event that he is going to.
However, the rules say:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />11-4 If a rules infraction is discovered during the course of the competition, the competitor may be disqualified from the event based on the severity of the infraction and the current status of the competition.
11-5 If the rule violation is an honest, minor infraction, the officiating staff may issue a warning and then ask the offending competitor to take the appropriate action in order to address the violation. If the infraction is exposed prior to the elimination rounds of competition, the competitor’s qualifying score shall be nullified and the competitor may be allowed to re-qualify once the infraction is rectified. If the infraction is discovered during the elimination rounds of competition, the offending competitor shall be disqualified from the event.
11-6 If the rule violation is an honest, major infraction, the offending competitor shall be disqualified from the event.
Also, I notice you left out 11-7 of the rule book. Lemme quote it for you
11-7 If the violation is deliberate and/or fraudulent in nature, the competitor shall be disqualified from the event.
Besides, ignorance of the rules shouldn't be an acceptable excuse.
If dbDrag wants to put itself up on a pedestal as THE organisation to compete in, then they need to act like it.
No one says "well if he didn't know he was taking steroids then it's ok" during the Olympics.
