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I know that many of you have experienced this format at the Rochester show, but after speaking with Paul Papadeas about it my thought was to take this from the IASCA members forum and post it on this forum and the carsound forum. The following is a copy of what I posted on the IASCA members forum, please let me know your thoughts...

"After a very educational conversation with Paul, I have come to the conclusion that I have to post something on this subject to get your valued input on this possibility.

First, a bit of history... I wasn't aware that IASCA was the originator of the "head to head" format of SPL competition. Many years ago, Paul actually ran the very first "dB Drag" under the IASCA umbrella, then dB Drag became it's own entity (I told you it was an educational conversation!).

The whole subject came up when I was talking to Paul about the possibility of IdBL running a "head to head" format. Over the last couple of years, I have asked many competitors what it is they liked about each different organization, and the recurring comment was about the head to head style competition that dB Drag is now using. The concept of actually going up against someone, rather than trying to beat "a score". So that got me to thinking, why can't we do that in IdBL again?

After some long hours of thought (sometimes it takes me a while - lol), and after competing in a snooker tournament (yes, I do things other than compete and judge!) I was looking at the format they use, which is a double elimination format and thought that this could work in SPL competition as well. So I wrote out how it would basically go... and here it is...

You'd have two meters set up with a simultaneous countdown, so competitors will be going head to head in competition. Each time two cars run in the qualifying rounds, the winner will move to “A” division and the loser will move to “B” division. After all competitors run through qualifying runs, all the “A” division competitors will start competing against each other and as they get beat,they move to “B” division until there’s an “A” division champion. Then, the “B” division competitors start squaring off against each other until there’s a “B” division champion; then the “A” champ and the “B” champ go against each other in the final round to determine the winner.

The great thing about this format is that each competitor gets at least 2 runs no matter what; you get your first run, and if you get knocked down into “B” division, you get at minimum one more run. If you continue to win in “B” division, you keep running until you lose to someone in “B” division, then you’re done. If you get all the way through “B” division to become “B” division champ, then you go up against the “A” division champ for first place.

If competitor "A" is the winner of that run, he/she would be the first place winner, and competitor "B" would be second place winner, then you'd move down the line to the next competitor who had the most wins and he or she would be third, and so on. If competitor "B" wins that run, then they both have a win and a loss, and they would run one more time to determine the overall winner, because in IdBL Double E, you have to lose twice to be knocked out.

I thought a neat name for it would be "IdBL Double E", but I'm not sure how that would sound to everyone.

What do you all think? Do you think it would be a viable format? Obviously, there would still have to be the standard events, not everyone has two meters and the simulstart system to run it, but maybe something to start doing at major events.

Your input is extremely important, I need to know if I'm just blowing smoke or if this could be the next step in the evolution of IdBL. I look forward to reading your comments!"

 

hey moe thats way to much for me to read do ya have an instuctional video or a self help tape i could watch or listen to that would be great

 

oh God!!!!!!!! WAY TOO MUCH TO READ. i gave up after first paragraph.

 

Moe, it sounds like a good concept but the only problem I see with it is being this:

If you're just trying to beat a score you run two, maybe three times if you choose to, through the lane.

With head to head format you're likely to have to run at least three times. This means more wear on the equipment and the possibilty of more broken gear.

 

1st point
although that sounds great. i do think that it can get a bit confusing when trying to see about qualifying for finals. is there gonna be an "A" and "B" finals category. or is finals held the same as a local competition. also who would decide who would go against who. like for instance. i knew that 20 hz went up to the lane to see if they qualify for a or b . who would go against him. or for that same fact some one would go against him knowuing that they wouldnt have to go against him at all until the end again. you'll either have guys that would clearly go against a certain person just to land in a certain class or not in a certain class(shoot i think my head just spun one too many times). Head to head is great and i love that feel of strategy. but there need to be a well defined qualifiying into each category. and not so random chosen or picked. The initial who goes first against each other is the question.

2nd point
what if there is an odd man out. a 1,3,5,7,9,etc, who does he go against. and how would you choose who gets that spot if there are an odd number out. draw straws? numbers? etc. its that not enough to make a full pair that needs to be looked at

3rd point
what if there is a show with only 1 competitor. hw does this double elimination go? just turns into a double run?

if this a method for finals it may be very easy to use previous high scores to match up who goes against who, and who gets that single spot left. it is a tough one to just impliment without a thourough set of rules to be added to this. but it would be great to see some form of head to head.

 

Ok for your first point. I pretty sure there the double elimination is for each class. And there is no a class and b class moe just used "a" and "b" as an example. Qualifying would be the same as always you come up hit your # and then the next guys goes. This ends once everyone is qualified and then Brackets are made just like dbdrag just here there will be a second bracket for the guys that lose. and for your second point. if ther is odd numbers then some people will get a bye to the next round. Just like in db drag. And qualifying determines which place you get put in. If there is only 1 competitor the he automatically wins so he just does his qualifing run and maybe a final run (kinda hard to lose to nobody!)

Most people know how i stand on this but ill say this again. This is a great format for local shows cause it give the little guys an extra run or two. But once you get to finals it just starts to be a pain in the *** cause its gonigt o take so long to run it. And the way I see it is that it helps the louder guys more then the rest cause they could have a failure in one run and still win the comp. Heck if i know im the loudest I would lose my first run and take the loser bracket all the way to the end.

Just so you know if you have a feild of 8 competitors you would have to first qualify them which takes 4 runs then have the first round which is another 4 runs. now you have to go to the loser bracket (4 losers) and have 2 more runs (now you have eliminated 2 competitors)then go back to the winner bracket (4 winners) and have 2 runs, now go back to the loser bracket where you have the 2 original losers and now 2 new losers, thats another 2 runs and you have eliminated to more competitors. Now its back to the winners bracket (2 left) so its one more run. Then off to the losers bracket 2 losers left from the last round the have one run one gets eliminated and the other faces the loser from the winner bracket. So they now have their run the loser gets 3rd and the other goes on to face the last winner in the winners bracket. So you could have 2 runs if the loser wins or just one run if the winner wins the first run.

So with all that you have a total of 18 to 19 runs depending on the final. Oh and thats just one class. IASCA currently has 12 classes so that would mean that at finals if there were only 8 competitors in each class you would have 216 runs to 228 runs to finish the whole comp.\

Now if you were to run finals at its most efficiant it wou take you 19.8 hours to complete.

set up time - 2 min x 216 runs = 432 mins
run time - 30 sec x 216 runs = 108 mins
tear down - 3 min x 216 runs = 648 mins

for a total of 1188 min which = 19.8 hours

that is with no breaks in between runs break that dow over 2 days and thats 9.9 hours a day!

Im not knocking this format just that it needs to be thought over first before it goes through.

 

moe said
You'd have two meters set up with a simultaneous countdown, so competitors will be going head to head in competition. Each time two cars run in the qualifying rounds, the winner will move to “A” division and the loser will move to “B” division.

mustang said
And there is no a class and b class moe just used "a" and "b" as an example. Qualifying would be the same as always you come up hit your # and then the next guys goes.This ends once everyone is qualified and then Brackets are made just like dbdrag

i say
no i think moe said two guys come up to qualify not just one at a time like you said. thats is why i said my first point and my second point. simutaneously and two come up to qualify.
Im sure that Moe can clear this up.

[ October 10, 2004, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: Team Shadow ]

 

sorry I meant 2 guys go up. Not 1 at a time. thank you for correcting me

 

u guys actually read all that? wow

 

yes we did you should too.