1 seat or 2
08-11-2004, 02:57 PM
#22
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,267
Thats exactly what I mean. I guess my train of thought comes from my compition days where we focused most of our time on the install and not buying a piece of electronics that makes up flaws in our installs.
Those days are over!!!!!
Those days are over!!!!!
08-11-2004, 03:18 PM
#23
I can't afford the expensive processing.. so I'm going to spend the time, (a year if necessary) to make my next system sound as flawless as I possibly can, and then take it to people who are more skilled than I am, and let them critique it so that it can sound even better. and when I feel it's ready... then I'll enter my rookie year in Iasca, but not before.
Processors are wonderful tools, IF you absolutely cannot create a good sound without them. However, if you can do better without the processor, then why do you have it? it's a waste of money to buy something that is a shortcut to an unsatisfactory solution, and then take the long way and find out that the shortcut was unnecesary.
My processing will be an excellent crossover, and a stereo 31 band EQ that will be setup for RTA purposes, and then bypassed for listening.
anything else is extranious and an excuse to not do the job right.
Processors are wonderful tools, IF you absolutely cannot create a good sound without them. However, if you can do better without the processor, then why do you have it? it's a waste of money to buy something that is a shortcut to an unsatisfactory solution, and then take the long way and find out that the shortcut was unnecesary.
My processing will be an excellent crossover, and a stereo 31 band EQ that will be setup for RTA purposes, and then bypassed for listening.
anything else is extranious and an excuse to not do the job right.
08-11-2004, 04:17 PM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
interesting take on things, my desire to hear your car when done is surpased only by my desire to but back a frosty cold beer(its 37 degrees here today), on a seirous note, people who use processors, read: eq's, dont cut corners and do the job poorly, i wont begin to throw names of multiple world champions from last year that all use eq's, so on your quest for sonic superiority without eq's, i wish you good luck
08-11-2004, 04:39 PM
#25
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
Fat says
Agree
I do not consider a processor cheating, I consider it a second best option. I would prefer not using one... and I do not. I have certainly considered it and have had the cheque written but I asked myself will this get me closer to the data recorded on the CD and tore up the cheque.
Oh and I set up for both seats...but since it is my car, and I seldom have passengers, the drivers side images better. But seriously what good is a system if you can not show it off a little once in a while. Don’t we want folk to love our systems as much as we do?
But I do disagree that tuning for 1 seat is just as easy as 2. You are dealing with double the amount of variables in the situation. There will always be 1 seat a little bit better than the other, but you should be able to get both seat dialed in pretty good. I have heard some great sounding cars which sound good from both seats. Its unfortunate that most compitions have gone to a 1 seat judging. It allows the guys with the time processing and such to beat up the guys who spend countless hours of building and listening time, just by purchasing a "gadget".
Good debate
Good debate
I do not consider a processor cheating, I consider it a second best option. I would prefer not using one... and I do not. I have certainly considered it and have had the cheque written but I asked myself will this get me closer to the data recorded on the CD and tore up the cheque.
Oh and I set up for both seats...but since it is my car, and I seldom have passengers, the drivers side images better. But seriously what good is a system if you can not show it off a little once in a while. Don’t we want folk to love our systems as much as we do?
08-11-2004, 10:58 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by defro:
fat whacker, the bar should be set higher for 1 seat judging, they are in my book at least, which makes tuning just as time comsuming because imo the expectations should be higher,
processing shouldnt be used a bandaid or crutch, but as a tool, not unlike an analyzer, would you agree that coupled with a great install that the processors of today, you can get a better sq vehicle than that of processors of days gone by, like the eqt, alesis, eq232, rane, the older analog stuff, lets say you had a car that sounded great with a phoenix gold eq232, removed it and inserted a pxah700(same cost approx), and changed nothing else, could you imporove the way your car sounded with the new eq given an adequate time to tune. i agree fun debate [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
fat whacker, the bar should be set higher for 1 seat judging, they are in my book at least, which makes tuning just as time comsuming because imo the expectations should be higher,
processing shouldnt be used a bandaid or crutch, but as a tool, not unlike an analyzer, would you agree that coupled with a great install that the processors of today, you can get a better sq vehicle than that of processors of days gone by, like the eqt, alesis, eq232, rane, the older analog stuff, lets say you had a car that sounded great with a phoenix gold eq232, removed it and inserted a pxah700(same cost approx), and changed nothing else, could you imporove the way your car sounded with the new eq given an adequate time to tune. i agree fun debate [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
But there is no reason someone with some good install talent shouldn't be able to tune in 1 seat without the use of any processing. Even with 2 seats, there shouldn't be a need for processing.
I think the only time I would use somthing like the P9 or PXA stuff if I was using stock locations or doing a multi media setup. It gives you some deffinate benifits you can't achieve without. I was thinking about my Jeep Cherokee and how it would be nice to do a nice little multi media system with a monitor up front, monitors in the headrests and a funky surround setup. For somthing like that, I think processing like time delay, multi zone setup etc would be rad. That way you can dial in any seat at a touch of a button.
08-12-2004, 03:00 AM
#28
Here's my 2 cents...
I don't compete and my wife/kids don't care, so I tune it for the driver's seat (and for clients too because that is who's opinion matters) -- I don't use processors (yes, in the right hands they CAN be beneficial) -- just because I guess I'm used to a good CD play into a good amp into separates on the dash (only good thing about having a Caravan). I find my choice of music has a larger effect on my system than tweaking the levels -- man, if I had a dime for everytime some kid was playing rapcrap and wondered why the sound sucked.... [img]graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]
I don't compete and my wife/kids don't care, so I tune it for the driver's seat (and for clients too because that is who's opinion matters) -- I don't use processors (yes, in the right hands they CAN be beneficial) -- just because I guess I'm used to a good CD play into a good amp into separates on the dash (only good thing about having a Caravan). I find my choice of music has a larger effect on my system than tweaking the levels -- man, if I had a dime for everytime some kid was playing rapcrap and wondered why the sound sucked.... [img]graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]
08-12-2004, 07:49 AM
#29
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
To say you don't need "any" processing ........... well........ anyone looked in Eldridges truck ???? That guy is monkeying around at the cutting edge last time I looked and he has some pretty fancy things in there that manipulate the signal(s). Hey, I'm no expert nor will I claim to be. I think tonally, it's best to put as little in the path as possible. I believe Adam also came to this conclusion recently. With regards to staging and imaging, there's just so many things wrong with the car interior environment that to tweak it, expect to spend a billion hours with placement/interior construction and possibly fail if you don't want to use processing.
Like others here have already said, processing is not a bad thing. If you're tuning adjustments are a little bit here and there, that's fine in my mind. But if you're having to kill some big frequency response monsters, phasing issues, etc then you definitely have an installation problem. You should suck it up and head back to review your install.
One last thing to that. Some vehicle problems acoustically are very hard to resolve because of the factory design of the vehicle. To "fix" these issues may take some commitment and ***** to be able to "rebuild" the interior to change the factory design. For example, the trapping of frequency response in the footwells due to large centre consoles and big dash overhangs. This can sometimes kill your kickpanel installation........ from what I've experienced and in talking to others as well. Up front planning and knowledge on these issues goes a long way in avoiding unnecessary construction coupled with disappointment........... anger........ table sawing you new fibreglass kickpods into a billion pieces and then hurling them across the street........ uhmmmmmm did I just say that out loud ?!??!?!?!?
Like others here have already said, processing is not a bad thing. If you're tuning adjustments are a little bit here and there, that's fine in my mind. But if you're having to kill some big frequency response monsters, phasing issues, etc then you definitely have an installation problem. You should suck it up and head back to review your install.
One last thing to that. Some vehicle problems acoustically are very hard to resolve because of the factory design of the vehicle. To "fix" these issues may take some commitment and ***** to be able to "rebuild" the interior to change the factory design. For example, the trapping of frequency response in the footwells due to large centre consoles and big dash overhangs. This can sometimes kill your kickpanel installation........ from what I've experienced and in talking to others as well. Up front planning and knowledge on these issues goes a long way in avoiding unnecessary construction coupled with disappointment........... anger........ table sawing you new fibreglass kickpods into a billion pieces and then hurling them across the street........ uhmmmmmm did I just say that out loud ?!??!?!?!?
08-12-2004, 07:52 AM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
rap on mp3 downloaded at 128kbs sounds delicious, when i demo my car for people i put them in the drivers seat, walk away and leave them be to listen on there own. in my car i use the pxa for 5 things, eq, x-overs/phase, d/a conversion, time delay, and the preset capabilities. i can have up to 6 presets, so tunuing for muliple seating positions can be done, and switched very easily, i really fid it indispensable to be able to make x/over and eq adjustments in real time while sitting in the listening position
