24 Bit DAC
09-18-2007, 05:58 PM
#21
If the rest of your system is up to par, you can hear a difference. Although the untrained ear might not know what to listen for.
How many times does this topic have to come up? One person says you can't and brings up RC's biased tests and blah blah, then the next person says you might be able to hear it then I say you can if you know what to listen for, then a bunch over people agree, and a bunch of people disagree and the discussion never goes any further than that.
Here's the bottom line, go listen for yourself, if you can't hear the difference, either your system isn't up to par to enable you to hear it, or you don't know what to listen for....Don't waste your money.
If you CAN hear the difference, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
How many times does this topic have to come up? One person says you can't and brings up RC's biased tests and blah blah, then the next person says you might be able to hear it then I say you can if you know what to listen for, then a bunch over people agree, and a bunch of people disagree and the discussion never goes any further than that.
Here's the bottom line, go listen for yourself, if you can't hear the difference, either your system isn't up to par to enable you to hear it, or you don't know what to listen for....Don't waste your money.
If you CAN hear the difference, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
09-18-2007, 06:19 PM
#22
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by veeman
I honestly don't hear it...and this is in my house. I have a new Denon 24 bit dvd/cd player with optical to my receiver, so out of curiosity I hooked up an old(16 years old, I found it the other day, I forgot I even had it!) JVC 1bit cd player via analog cables to the cd input. Switching back and forth using the same cd, I have 2 copies of some, I have to say, there is no audible difference to me. I even used the kids again just to see if it was my older ears...and again, they could not tell which was playing. Is there a difference? I'm sure it is measurable, and some of you may be able to discern it, but I can't. My feeling is if I can't in a house with a 17 year old player, I'm pretty sure it's worthless to me in a car! Just my personal experience.
technically there is a huge difference, just a matter of whether your ears are tuned to it. Also, a huge factor is what kind of music you're playing.
Rap? Heavy Metal? Classic Rock? Classical? MP3 or original CD?
09-18-2007, 09:39 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Brandon
If the rest of your system is up to par, you can hear a difference. Although the untrained ear might not know what to listen for.
How many times does this topic have to come up? One person says you can't and brings up RC's biased tests and blah blah, then the next person says you might be able to hear it then I say you can if you know what to listen for, then a bunch over people agree, and a bunch of people disagree and the discussion never goes any further than that.
Here's the bottom line, go listen for yourself, if you can't hear the difference, either your system isn't up to par to enable you to hear it, or you don't know what to listen for....Don't waste your money.
If you CAN hear the difference, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
How many times does this topic have to come up? One person says you can't and brings up RC's biased tests and blah blah, then the next person says you might be able to hear it then I say you can if you know what to listen for, then a bunch over people agree, and a bunch of people disagree and the discussion never goes any further than that.
Here's the bottom line, go listen for yourself, if you can't hear the difference, either your system isn't up to par to enable you to hear it, or you don't know what to listen for....Don't waste your money.
If you CAN hear the difference, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I would put up cash money against anyone who said that they could hear a difference between DACs, amplifers, preamplifiers, or common sub box materials for that matter..... so long as a test was done with a proper 'ABX' approach.... (the same way any scientific A to B comparison would be made)
I am also sure Id win.... but alas someone with your attitude would argue all the BS in the world as to why they lost; and would never pay up or admit they were wrong.....
No one brought up RC untill you did.... (and I hope you realize he did not invent the ABX style approach) But since you seem to believe his approach to testing audio equipment is 'bogus' ..... why don't you contact his arch nemisis E.Runner...... I am sure he would still back RC up on something this obvious.....
Last edited by Haunz; 09-18-2007 at 09:43 PM.
09-18-2007, 09:43 PM
#24
^^I haven't denied that, but my ears really don't care about "technically", just what they can hear. Oh, and I listen to everything, from bach to biggie, mp3 to Telarc DDD, vinyl and magnetic...i gots it all.
09-18-2007, 09:54 PM
#26
Originally Posted by veeman
^^I haven't denied that, but my ears really don't care about "technically", just what they can hear. Oh, and I listen to everything, from bach to biggie, mp3 to Telarc DDD, vinyl and magnetic...i gots it all.
THAT WAS DIRECTED TO CMAN333...NOT YOU HAUNZ...I THINK WE POSTED AT THE SAME TIME
09-18-2007, 10:02 PM
#27
Originally Posted by Haunz
You are ignorent.... like someone who would argue against the evolution of life because their own personal beliefs skew thier judgment.... you honestly seem to believe yourself and others with 'golden ears' can tell a difference between DACs..... ?!?!
I would put up cash money against anyone who said that they could hear a difference between DACs, amplifers, preamplifiers, or common sub box materials for that matter..... so long as a test was done with a proper 'ABX' approach.... (the same way any scientific A to B comparison would be made)
I am also sure Id win.... but alas someone with your attitude would argue all the BS in the world as to why they lost; and would never pay up or admit they were wrong.....
No one brought up RC untill you did.... (and I hope you realize he did not invent the ABX style approach) But since you seem to believe his approach to testing audio equipment is 'bogus' ..... why don't you contact his arch nemisis E.Runner...... I am sure he would still back RC up on something this obvious.....
I would put up cash money against anyone who said that they could hear a difference between DACs, amplifers, preamplifiers, or common sub box materials for that matter..... so long as a test was done with a proper 'ABX' approach.... (the same way any scientific A to B comparison would be made)
I am also sure Id win.... but alas someone with your attitude would argue all the BS in the world as to why they lost; and would never pay up or admit they were wrong.....
No one brought up RC untill you did.... (and I hope you realize he did not invent the ABX style approach) But since you seem to believe his approach to testing audio equipment is 'bogus' ..... why don't you contact his arch nemisis E.Runner...... I am sure he would still back RC up on something this obvious.....
In a properly set-up system, YOU WILL hear the difference.
09-18-2007, 10:05 PM
#28
Originally Posted by Cman333
technically there is a huge difference, just a matter of whether your ears are tuned to it. Also, a huge factor is what kind of music you're playing.
Rap? Heavy Metal? Classic Rock? Classical? MP3 or original CD?
Rap? Heavy Metal? Classic Rock? Classical? MP3 or original CD?
Some people hear it, some don't, and some losers like Haunz go by computer printouts and heresay rather than real world experince.
09-18-2007, 10:10 PM
#29
I guess the next thing is gonna be that 2 different speakers sound the exact same just because they have the same power rating.
That's about how ridiculous it is to say that a 24 bit D/As don't sound better than 1 bit on a properly set up system.
Yea, and Sprite and 7Up taste the same too I suppose.
dinkless
That's about how ridiculous it is to say that a 24 bit D/As don't sound better than 1 bit on a properly set up system.
Yea, and Sprite and 7Up taste the same too I suppose.
dinkless
09-19-2007, 03:01 PM
#30
I am shocked that someone with Brandon's attitude would resort to calling names like moron and loser.... 
Brandon, since I don't seem to know.... can you please tell me what exactly I need to 'listen for' to tell a difference between DACs ???
So you know; I've got a Mission CD deck with FOUR 16 bit DACs hooked up in my house right now..... so please don't talk like I don't have real world listening experience.....
According to you my 64 bit unit should sound noticably different then the technique CD changer sitting next to it which uses a single 1bit DAC.... but guess what it dosent....
We can discuss the various speakers bins like Mission TAC Advent Martin to name a few that have been hooked up, or the Crown or current Nikko amplifiers that have powered them........ but someone with your attitude would argue that my interconnects must be inferior or that I must use 'MIT shotgun' power cables to tell the difference.... or some other nonsense like that.....
Tell me Brandon, do you use magic crystals placed on top of your 8250Ti to enhance it's depth and clarity ?
Bottom line is that industry members, musicians, audiophiles, and children all alike, have all tried ABX testing of amplifiers, DACs, Interconnects, ect... and have not been able to differentiate between them......
Brandon, since I don't seem to know.... can you please tell me what exactly I need to 'listen for' to tell a difference between DACs ???
So you know; I've got a Mission CD deck with FOUR 16 bit DACs hooked up in my house right now..... so please don't talk like I don't have real world listening experience.....
According to you my 64 bit unit should sound noticably different then the technique CD changer sitting next to it which uses a single 1bit DAC.... but guess what it dosent....
We can discuss the various speakers bins like Mission TAC Advent Martin to name a few that have been hooked up, or the Crown or current Nikko amplifiers that have powered them........ but someone with your attitude would argue that my interconnects must be inferior or that I must use 'MIT shotgun' power cables to tell the difference.... or some other nonsense like that.....
Tell me Brandon, do you use magic crystals placed on top of your 8250Ti to enhance it's depth and clarity ?
Bottom line is that industry members, musicians, audiophiles, and children all alike, have all tried ABX testing of amplifiers, DACs, Interconnects, ect... and have not been able to differentiate between them......
