55W rms @ 4 ohm or 75W rms @ 2 ohm
03-05-2009, 08:54 PM
#1
0 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 22
55W rms @ 4 ohm or 75W rms @ 2 ohm
I am looking to find speakers to pair with a JBL GTO5355 amp. Front and rear channels put out 55W rms @ 4 ohm, or 75W rms @ 2 ohm.
My plan was to wire a set of 2 ohm components for the front channel to get max power, and 2 ohm 6x9's for the rears.
I have been having trouble finding much selection for reasonable 2 ohm speakers. One particular brand that I am interested in is the Infinity Reference 6020CS components.
Is there going to be any great benefit to seeking 2 ohm speakers for an approximate gain of 20W per channel, or will there be better clarity when running 4 ohm components?
Also, I have found some 3 ohm speakers. Could these be a potential option?
My plan was to wire a set of 2 ohm components for the front channel to get max power, and 2 ohm 6x9's for the rears.
I have been having trouble finding much selection for reasonable 2 ohm speakers. One particular brand that I am interested in is the Infinity Reference 6020CS components.
Is there going to be any great benefit to seeking 2 ohm speakers for an approximate gain of 20W per channel, or will there be better clarity when running 4 ohm components?
Also, I have found some 3 ohm speakers. Could these be a potential option?
03-06-2009, 10:29 AM
#3
at 2ohm your amp loses damping, and it since you amp does not even come close to doubling power, either the power supply section wil be stressed, or it just doesn't have enough transistors to support that properly so it's gonna get warm, add THD, etc. etc.
Anything above 40Wrms of clean power is enough to hurt your ears with good speakers. Don't even look at power ratings for they speakers. Most useless spec for them. They tell you absolutely nothing useful. DOn't even read the spec sheets. because our ears don't hear specs..they hear sound. Go shopping and bring some tunes you are familiar with and go out there and demo!!!
Anything above 40Wrms of clean power is enough to hurt your ears with good speakers. Don't even look at power ratings for they speakers. Most useless spec for them. They tell you absolutely nothing useful. DOn't even read the spec sheets. because our ears don't hear specs..they hear sound. Go shopping and bring some tunes you are familiar with and go out there and demo!!!
03-09-2009, 05:27 AM
#4
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
Imho
Im not sure I understand why but people can sometimes get a certain obsession about being able to run a certain number of OHMS. Don't get it. Look for the speakers that sound the best and feed them a bit more than rms. And no, 20 watts doesn't make a difference. In either case that power does not come continuously, but rather changes as the music rises and dips and changes pitch. With either Ohm rating at times you may only see 5-10 watts, at other times you may see 30-40, and if you keep it cranked at your max undistorted volume continuously for extended periods of time you MIGHT briefly see all that amp's watts but at other times you could may never actually see all 55 or 75 of them. It takes a doubling of power to see the 3 decibel increase that has determined to be the bare minimum perceptable by the human ear. Just get good speakers then feed them 25-50% more than RMS in good clean power and should be good to go with sufficient loudness in normal listening and clean musical peaks.
03-09-2009, 10:51 AM
#5
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Thread Starter
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Posts: 22
Im not sure I understand why but people can sometimes get a certain obsession about being able to run a certain number of OHMS. Don't get it. Look for the speakers that sound the best and feed them a bit more than rms. And no, 20 watts doesn't make a difference. In either case that power does not come continuously, but rather changes as the music rises and dips and changes pitch. With either Ohm rating at times you may only see 5-10 watts, at other times you may see 30-40, and if you keep it cranked at your max undistorted volume continuously for extended periods of time you MIGHT briefly see all that amp's watts but at other times you could may never actually see all 55 or 75 of them. It takes a doubling of power to see the 3 decibel increase that has determined to be the bare minimum perceptable by the human ear. Just get good speakers then feed them 25-50% more than RMS in good clean power and should be good to go with sufficient loudness in normal listening and clean musical peaks.
So you are suggesting that a speaker rated for 50W rms will sound best powered by an amp that puts out 63-75w rms?
I have heard this before, but am unsure of the explanation.
What would be the undesired effect of feeding 55W rms into a speaker that is rated for 110W rms?
03-09-2009, 10:59 AM
#6
speakers wattage rating means absolutely next to nothing. Frequency reponse and efficiency ae the 2 main specs that wll tell you anything. Your ears the final judge.
Wattage for speakers only tells you how much heat the spakers can handle before they fail. It has absolutely nothing to do with how loud they will get, how good they will sound, how much midbass you'll get. It's pretty much a useless spec when it comes to speakers.
To answer your question. What is te effect of feeding a 110Wrms rated speaker only 55Wrms. The speaker will play absolutely fine. It will i fac play music, and do everything you'd expect a speaker to do.
Why this generally isn't reccomended is because if you like to listen to your music at rediculously loud levels you can cause your amplifier to distort severely by trying to get too much power out of it. This sends a clipped signal and will urn up a speaker quickly, even if it is rated for more power than the amplifier can provide. This problem 99% of the time is caused by the guy controlling the volume **** and keeps turning up AFTER the music starts getting distorted. It's not a problem inherent with the equipment. It's th loose nut between the seat and steering wheel
Wattage for speakers only tells you how much heat the spakers can handle before they fail. It has absolutely nothing to do with how loud they will get, how good they will sound, how much midbass you'll get. It's pretty much a useless spec when it comes to speakers.
To answer your question. What is te effect of feeding a 110Wrms rated speaker only 55Wrms. The speaker will play absolutely fine. It will i fac play music, and do everything you'd expect a speaker to do.
Why this generally isn't reccomended is because if you like to listen to your music at rediculously loud levels you can cause your amplifier to distort severely by trying to get too much power out of it. This sends a clipped signal and will urn up a speaker quickly, even if it is rated for more power than the amplifier can provide. This problem 99% of the time is caused by the guy controlling the volume **** and keeps turning up AFTER the music starts getting distorted. It's not a problem inherent with the equipment. It's th loose nut between the seat and steering wheel
03-10-2009, 07:08 AM
#7
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
speakers wattage rating means absolutely next to nothing. Frequency reponse and efficiency ae the 2 main specs that wll tell you anything. Your ears the final judge.
Wattage for speakers only tells you how much heat the spakers can handle before they fail. It has absolutely nothing to do with how loud they will get, how good they will sound, how much midbass you'll get. It's pretty much a useless spec when it comes to speakers.
To answer your question. What is te effect of feeding a 110Wrms rated speaker only 55Wrms. The speaker will play absolutely fine. It will i fac play music, and do everything you'd expect a speaker to do.
Why this generally isn't reccomended is because if you like to listen to your music at rediculously loud levels you can cause your amplifier to distort severely by trying to get too much power out of it. This sends a clipped signal and will urn up a speaker quickly, even if it is rated for more power than the amplifier can provide. This problem 99% of the time is caused by the guy controlling the volume **** and keeps turning up AFTER the music starts getting distorted. It's not a problem inherent with the equipment. It's th loose nut between the seat and steering wheel
Wattage for speakers only tells you how much heat the spakers can handle before they fail. It has absolutely nothing to do with how loud they will get, how good they will sound, how much midbass you'll get. It's pretty much a useless spec when it comes to speakers.
To answer your question. What is te effect of feeding a 110Wrms rated speaker only 55Wrms. The speaker will play absolutely fine. It will i fac play music, and do everything you'd expect a speaker to do.
Why this generally isn't reccomended is because if you like to listen to your music at rediculously loud levels you can cause your amplifier to distort severely by trying to get too much power out of it. This sends a clipped signal and will urn up a speaker quickly, even if it is rated for more power than the amplifier can provide. This problem 99% of the time is caused by the guy controlling the volume **** and keeps turning up AFTER the music starts getting distorted. It's not a problem inherent with the equipment. It's th loose nut between the seat and steering wheel
03-10-2009, 09:09 AM
#8
that's the amount of power you are feeding the speakers. Not the rating of the speakers. Also an amplifier only puts out it's full rated power for VERY short periods of time with music and that's only at it's maximum unclipped potential. Take a volt meter sometime and crank your system untill it hurts your ears, use a volt meter that will hold peak voltage and see what kind of power you are putting out. I've done this a few times and most people get realy shocked when they are barely scratching the 40 watt mark at musical peaks.
Yes headroom on an amplifier is a great thing. but the wattage number printed on the speaker box is pretty much the least important spec printed on the speakers box/manual.
Yes headroom on an amplifier is a great thing. but the wattage number printed on the speaker box is pretty much the least important spec printed on the speakers box/manual.
03-10-2009, 04:33 PM
#9
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 723
I understand what Sikk is saying...
I just need more clarification. Hopefully it helps the O.P out too.
So you're suggesting that 40W is generally enough power to be considered "loud enough", by most people's standards. What percentage is that 40W of the given amplifier's output? Is this a 120W/channel amp, an 80W/channel, a 60W/ channel? It's a lot easier for a stronger amp to output 40W. It will be difficult for his 55W amp, to do so. What I'm getting at is, if this guy is at the point where he's looking for amplification, will 55W be enough? Or will he be likely to increase the input sensitivity for more volume, but create adverse residual effects in the process.
I understand that a speaker's power handling is inconsequential. However, I'd argue that if you were to look at any speaker brand, their entry level speakers have less power handling than those from their mid level, and those less than their high-end. If he were to find 40WRMS speakers, they're most likely going to be entry level garbage.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a speaker playing a 100Hz tone with 25W, is being worked harder than an identical speaker playing a 250Hz tone with 25W, due to the physics of producing each frequency. Also, the 100Hz tone wouldn't have the same level of volume as the 250Hz tone, since the higher frequency is "easier" to produce. I think there's a direct correlation between a speakers power handling, and the low end of its frequency range. If, at equal volumes, a lower frequency is "harder" to produce, then a speaker that is capable of producing that sound, has to be built in a way that in can do so, which means that it has to handle more power, assuming you want some mid-bass from your speakers.
Putting 55W to a 40WRMS speaker is going to hurt the speaker, unfortunately, I don't think there are many 40WRMS speakers that have good build quality, or are able to play low frequencies well with respectable volume. Putting 55W to a 110W speaker is far more desirable. The only downside is that you won't be getting the full output from those speakers at the bottom end, simply cause you don't have the power to drive the speakers properly. You'll only notice this as you increase the volume on your head-unit, or if you try and compensate by increasing the sensitivity of your amp.
The JBL GTO5355 is a 5 channel amp. Can he not bridge the 2 left channels, and the 2 right channels, and run a good pair of components up front. Leave the rear speakers running off the deck power. Run a sub at 2ohm, and get 360W for that. Instead of sinking $100 into a pair of 6x9's (and money for install), you take that money and put it towards your front speakers. From the info I can find on this particular amp, it doesn't mention if its bridgable, so I'm not sure its an option. But I'd highly recommend this path, if you can take it.
I lied, I just didn't see it right away.
So now, if you like those Infinity Components, you run them with 140W, instead of 55W, and wow! I just had my fiancee's amp and speaker's installed last Monday. The rear speakers are running off her Kenwood head-unit. The speakers are 6.5" components, MB Quart Premiums I bought off MR2NR, and the amp is a 3 channel amp that does about 80W x 2 into 4 ohms, and 500W x 1 into 2. And her car sounds amazing. Knowing that you have 140W to work with, opens up your options considerably...
Hope that rant helps.
I just need more clarification. Hopefully it helps the O.P out too.
So you're suggesting that 40W is generally enough power to be considered "loud enough", by most people's standards. What percentage is that 40W of the given amplifier's output? Is this a 120W/channel amp, an 80W/channel, a 60W/ channel? It's a lot easier for a stronger amp to output 40W. It will be difficult for his 55W amp, to do so. What I'm getting at is, if this guy is at the point where he's looking for amplification, will 55W be enough? Or will he be likely to increase the input sensitivity for more volume, but create adverse residual effects in the process.
I understand that a speaker's power handling is inconsequential. However, I'd argue that if you were to look at any speaker brand, their entry level speakers have less power handling than those from their mid level, and those less than their high-end. If he were to find 40WRMS speakers, they're most likely going to be entry level garbage.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a speaker playing a 100Hz tone with 25W, is being worked harder than an identical speaker playing a 250Hz tone with 25W, due to the physics of producing each frequency. Also, the 100Hz tone wouldn't have the same level of volume as the 250Hz tone, since the higher frequency is "easier" to produce. I think there's a direct correlation between a speakers power handling, and the low end of its frequency range. If, at equal volumes, a lower frequency is "harder" to produce, then a speaker that is capable of producing that sound, has to be built in a way that in can do so, which means that it has to handle more power, assuming you want some mid-bass from your speakers.
Putting 55W to a 40WRMS speaker is going to hurt the speaker, unfortunately, I don't think there are many 40WRMS speakers that have good build quality, or are able to play low frequencies well with respectable volume. Putting 55W to a 110W speaker is far more desirable. The only downside is that you won't be getting the full output from those speakers at the bottom end, simply cause you don't have the power to drive the speakers properly. You'll only notice this as you increase the volume on your head-unit, or if you try and compensate by increasing the sensitivity of your amp.
The JBL GTO5355 is a 5 channel amp. Can he not bridge the 2 left channels, and the 2 right channels, and run a good pair of components up front. Leave the rear speakers running off the deck power. Run a sub at 2ohm, and get 360W for that. Instead of sinking $100 into a pair of 6x9's (and money for install), you take that money and put it towards your front speakers. From the info I can find on this particular amp, it doesn't mention if its bridgable, so I'm not sure its an option. But I'd highly recommend this path, if you can take it.
I lied, I just didn't see it right away.
140W RMS x 2 + 225W RMS Channels at 4 Ohms
Hope that rant helps.
03-10-2009, 10:06 PM
#10
Putting 55W to a 40WRMS speaker is going to hurt the speaker, unfortunately, I don't think there are many 40WRMS speakers that have good build quality, or are able to play low frequencies well with respectable volume. Putting 55W to a 110W speaker is far more desirable. The only downside is that you won't be getting the full output from those speakers at the bottom end, simply cause you don't have the power to drive the speakers properly. .
I 100% always reccomend to use an amp tha makes at least 100Wrms per channel regardless of the speakers used. Dynamic headroom is the Bees Knees. However it is by absolutely no means necessary to have tons of power going to a spaker with high RMS rating (Morels are a great example at 230Wrms handling) Those will speakers will mechanically dissintegrate if they ever saw full power playing music..but the cols can dissipate tha much heat. With them being very efficient speakers alot of audiophiles have them running on 20Wrms tube amps... It's all relative to how loud you listen things and how hardcore you are.
In the end, at a good loud listening level with good quality amplifiers the best of the best out there would be extremely hard pressed to hear the difference between a 55Wrms amp and a 150Wrms amp at the same listening level.
