Attn CD Buyers - Clipping Hell
Rant alert...Rant alert...
This is a bit of a commentary on the "quality" of today's music recordings. Yesterday I went out and purchased a CD from a canadian artist named Jacksoul. I haven't bought a music CD in ages, but since the sound of this band lends itself to really good quality audio I wanted the best possible playback source (as opposed to MP3 download, paid or otherwise). So I dropped my 25 bucks on the counter.
So today I cut the disc to MP3s so I can listen to it at work, and afterwards I check a couple tracks out on Adobe Audition to see the waveforms. Keep in mind this is NOT heavy metal or rap music, more easy listening fusion funk or something like that:



The first screenshot is the full waveform. Clipping like a SOB. The next two are closeups of some of the typical clipping points - check out the waveforms at the top in particular - they look like they would go nearly another 3 dB beyond absolute 0 - this happens all through the track as can be seen in the full track screencap. I used three different extraction programs, tried several audio formats (including raw WAV), same result every time. I also fed the CD playback signal through a scope via 2 different CD sources (including a professional dbx unit with attentuation ability) - all the same results.
Keep in mind that old analog recordings had a certain amount of "headroom" at the top end of its scale - things would get distorted but not clipped as severely as in this case. With digital, once you hit 0dB (the loudest possible level), the signal gets chopped off. These are mostly bass beats (the CD is VERY bass heavy, especially in bass guitar and kick drum), so these clips can easily become subwoofer killers. Plus the full range signal is carried on the same waveform, so it gets clipped along with the bass beat. Also keep in mind this has nothing to do with the audio quality of the CD format - it is simply overzealous level settings, just like hitting the rev limiter on your car.
What are these audio engineers thinking? With the technology of today you'd think they wouldn't destroy great recordings like this. It reminds me of VHS movie rentals and how unbelievable loud the HiFi tracks are recorded - I wonder if DVD movies are the same way. What's the point in buying CDs over compressed MP3s when this is the result.
OK, someone please help me out here...any studio recordists in the house??
Mark
This is a bit of a commentary on the "quality" of today's music recordings. Yesterday I went out and purchased a CD from a canadian artist named Jacksoul. I haven't bought a music CD in ages, but since the sound of this band lends itself to really good quality audio I wanted the best possible playback source (as opposed to MP3 download, paid or otherwise). So I dropped my 25 bucks on the counter.
So today I cut the disc to MP3s so I can listen to it at work, and afterwards I check a couple tracks out on Adobe Audition to see the waveforms. Keep in mind this is NOT heavy metal or rap music, more easy listening fusion funk or something like that:



The first screenshot is the full waveform. Clipping like a SOB. The next two are closeups of some of the typical clipping points - check out the waveforms at the top in particular - they look like they would go nearly another 3 dB beyond absolute 0 - this happens all through the track as can be seen in the full track screencap. I used three different extraction programs, tried several audio formats (including raw WAV), same result every time. I also fed the CD playback signal through a scope via 2 different CD sources (including a professional dbx unit with attentuation ability) - all the same results.
Keep in mind that old analog recordings had a certain amount of "headroom" at the top end of its scale - things would get distorted but not clipped as severely as in this case. With digital, once you hit 0dB (the loudest possible level), the signal gets chopped off. These are mostly bass beats (the CD is VERY bass heavy, especially in bass guitar and kick drum), so these clips can easily become subwoofer killers. Plus the full range signal is carried on the same waveform, so it gets clipped along with the bass beat. Also keep in mind this has nothing to do with the audio quality of the CD format - it is simply overzealous level settings, just like hitting the rev limiter on your car.
What are these audio engineers thinking? With the technology of today you'd think they wouldn't destroy great recordings like this. It reminds me of VHS movie rentals and how unbelievable loud the HiFi tracks are recorded - I wonder if DVD movies are the same way. What's the point in buying CDs over compressed MP3s when this is the result.
OK, someone please help me out here...any studio recordists in the house??
Mark
Originally posted by Dave_MacKinnon:
That's pretty bad...
One of the very popular Enya discs has a lot of clipping on it as well...
That's pretty bad...
One of the very popular Enya discs has a lot of clipping on it as well...
It's not like if the CD were cut at -2dB it would be the end of the world. Problem here is how is it possible to get a copy of the CD that is NOT clipped (legitimately or not)?
Mark
well seeing as how you can't hear -3dB of clipping, this is no big deal. something needs to be massively clipped for you to even notice. this is nothing to be alarmed about.
don't make me find that link of the guy who clipped the Pink Panther song by -10dB with absolutely no audible negative effect on the audio whatsoever.
don't make me find that link of the guy who clipped the Pink Panther song by -10dB with absolutely no audible negative effect on the audio whatsoever.
Most popular recordings are mixed this way. The record labels seem bent on mixing them to make them sound as bold as possible on crappy systems, since the vast majority of consumers buying Pop/Rock/Hip Hip/R&B CDs have relatively poor listening equipment.
Visit any Hi-Fi shop and ask the resident audiophile snob about this. I'm sure that you'll get an earful [img]smile.gif[/img]
Visit any Hi-Fi shop and ask the resident audiophile snob about this. I'm sure that you'll get an earful [img]smile.gif[/img]
Can't hear it? Not true. On the bass beats the vocals flatten out too, making a slight cracking noise and distorting the texture of the voice. Listen to it on a quality pair of studio monitors and you will hear it for sure (or at least you should hear it). If that is acceptable to you, then that's great. But at the cost of CDs these days it is not right.
Anyway that is not the point - CDs are supposed to be quality recordings, we shouldn't have to settle for this type of careless mastering.
Mark
[ March 17, 2005, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: NOBASS ]
Anyway that is not the point - CDs are supposed to be quality recordings, we shouldn't have to settle for this type of careless mastering.
Mark
[ March 17, 2005, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: NOBASS ]
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NOBASS is totally correct, 3dB of clipping represents twice the voltage and will easily produce a square wave with a high percentage of distortion.
You are confusing a 3dB change in output level with a 3dB change in voltage from a source.
Why is there clipping on these discs? Lack of attention to detail I am sure...
I guess my only concern with the Jacksoul disc to MP3 conversion is the process itself. Does the disc itself sound bad, or just the MP3's? I am not suggesting you did anything wrong, I am simply not that familiar with the ripping process...
You are confusing a 3dB change in output level with a 3dB change in voltage from a source.
Why is there clipping on these discs? Lack of attention to detail I am sure...
I guess my only concern with the Jacksoul disc to MP3 conversion is the process itself. Does the disc itself sound bad, or just the MP3's? I am not suggesting you did anything wrong, I am simply not that familiar with the ripping process...
Originally posted by Dave_MacKinnon:
NOBASS is totally correct, 3dB of clipping represents twice the voltage and will easily produce a square wave with a high percentage of distortion.
You are confusing a 3dB change in output level with a 3dB change in voltage from a source.
Why is there clipping on these discs? Lack of attention to detail I am sure...
I guess my only concern with the Jacksoul disc to MP3 conversion is the process itself. Does the disc itself sound bad, or just the MP3's? I am not suggesting you did anything wrong, I am simply not that familiar with the ripping process...
NOBASS is totally correct, 3dB of clipping represents twice the voltage and will easily produce a square wave with a high percentage of distortion.
You are confusing a 3dB change in output level with a 3dB change in voltage from a source.
Why is there clipping on these discs? Lack of attention to detail I am sure...
I guess my only concern with the Jacksoul disc to MP3 conversion is the process itself. Does the disc itself sound bad, or just the MP3's? I am not suggesting you did anything wrong, I am simply not that familiar with the ripping process...
What was the clincher was connecting an oscilloscope to the outputs of a professional grade cd playback unit. During live playback the waveform squared off in a similar fashion to the ripped audio. This unit even has an attentuation control - I adjusted that to check if it was the output stage of the CD player, still clipped. It is in the recording, more specifically the mastering process (seems like the most logical stage considering the clipping "sharpness", but that's just a guess).
And the distorted vocals were heard from the actual CD through a few different CD players, as well as my in car setup. Same result every time.
Mark
[ March 17, 2005, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: NOBASS ]
Originally posted by Dave_MacKinnon:
NOBASS is totally correct, 3dB of clipping represents twice the voltage and will easily produce a square wave with a high percentage of distortion.
You are confusing a 3dB change in output level with a 3dB change in voltage from a source.
Why is there clipping on these discs? Lack of attention to detail I am sure...
I guess my only concern with the Jacksoul disc to MP3 conversion is the process itself. Does the disc itself sound bad, or just the MP3's? I am not suggesting you did anything wrong, I am simply not that familiar with the ripping process...
NOBASS is totally correct, 3dB of clipping represents twice the voltage and will easily produce a square wave with a high percentage of distortion.
You are confusing a 3dB change in output level with a 3dB change in voltage from a source.
Why is there clipping on these discs? Lack of attention to detail I am sure...
I guess my only concern with the Jacksoul disc to MP3 conversion is the process itself. Does the disc itself sound bad, or just the MP3's? I am not suggesting you did anything wrong, I am simply not that familiar with the ripping process...


