Best Mids Thread
03-24-2006, 12:50 PM
#41
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by SweetnLow91SC
^ It does plays up there tho.......... definately not the smoothest driver. (some compensation is needed for sure) But it has excellent dynamic performance and the efficiency is outstanding.
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03-24-2006, 12:51 PM
#42
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,120
Reason for the mid to be able to play to 6000-6500 Hz is that's approx where I would like to have an A-pillar tweet pick up from (I have TN-52's btw).
Reason for that frequency: The tweeter is no longer as easy to localize above that 6200 Hz frequency.
My experience is PLD's are not as important above approx 6000Hz, so if the mid is mounted in the ideal PLD position and plays the range from say 200-6200 Hz that should lay down a pretty solid foundation for a system that does not require a lot of tuning at the end of the day.
It will need a midbass somewhere close to the position of the mid and that's ok, again the direction the midbass is pointed is less important...PLD is where it's at down to around 100-120 Hz.
So to me it's all about the mid mounted in the ideal PLD location, and everything flows from that.
Reason for that frequency: The tweeter is no longer as easy to localize above that 6200 Hz frequency.
My experience is PLD's are not as important above approx 6000Hz, so if the mid is mounted in the ideal PLD position and plays the range from say 200-6200 Hz that should lay down a pretty solid foundation for a system that does not require a lot of tuning at the end of the day.
It will need a midbass somewhere close to the position of the mid and that's ok, again the direction the midbass is pointed is less important...PLD is where it's at down to around 100-120 Hz.
So to me it's all about the mid mounted in the ideal PLD location, and everything flows from that.
03-24-2006, 12:59 PM
#43
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 48
^ that is the THEORY yes, but you need to be flexiable. You cant just say, this to this with out testing/trail and error.
Also, the cross over point has nothing to do with localizing the tweeter, but with getting its bandwidth and dispersion out of the PLD imaging cues... 500-~4-5khz is the range where imaging cues switch from being Path length dependent to intensity (how loud it is verses the other side) dependent. The wave guide on the tn-51/52 effects the dispersion of the driver, which effects intensity.. Which allows for a lower xover point, if used properly, and of course the car effects that.
Heck theres some competitors using the TLR in a-piller installs to ~4khz and WINNING finals. The wave guide is the reason for this working..
PS i have done a few a-piller installs
, and listened to many many of them.
Also, the cross over point has nothing to do with localizing the tweeter, but with getting its bandwidth and dispersion out of the PLD imaging cues... 500-~4-5khz is the range where imaging cues switch from being Path length dependent to intensity (how loud it is verses the other side) dependent. The wave guide on the tn-51/52 effects the dispersion of the driver, which effects intensity.. Which allows for a lower xover point, if used properly, and of course the car effects that.
Heck theres some competitors using the TLR in a-piller installs to ~4khz and WINNING finals. The wave guide is the reason for this working..
PS i have done a few a-piller installs
, and listened to many many of them.
Last edited by VWmk5; 03-24-2006 at 01:11 PM.
03-24-2006, 01:04 PM
#44
500 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 884
Originally Posted by VWmk5
^ it can have all the dynamics, efficiency, or be covered in gold.. If i dont like how it sounds, then i just dont like it .
. So u know, I'm currently running the 6W. and believe me............ it took me quite a while to get this driver to sing. The Scanspeak Rev 4" and 5" are pretty much in the ball park right out of the box. I really like them..... (thats why I suggest them ahead of the Focal above) they were just too inefficient to be driven by the Milbert.
03-24-2006, 01:07 PM
#45
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,120
In the A-pillar installs you've done, was there a common thread to how you ended up angling the tweets? And how high up the pillar off the dash?
Every car is different naturally so I would not be surprised if it was always a different application. Thanks for the info, Good Stuff!!
Every car is different naturally so I would not be surprised if it was always a different application. Thanks for the info, Good Stuff!!
03-24-2006, 01:16 PM
#46
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 48
I start some where around 3-4"s or so above the dash (Tweet was still below eye level) and pointing directly at the opposite side. Then listen.. then angle them so they follow the windsheilds curve, listen again.. Then play around between those 2 directions.
With the tn52 you would want the waveguide vertical (or following the windsheild) so it narrows the dispersion horiz, and wides vertically, i believe.. try it both ways lol.
Oh, hows that TiDD10 treating you these days?
With the tn52 you would want the waveguide vertical (or following the windsheild) so it narrows the dispersion horiz, and wides vertically, i believe.. try it both ways lol.
Oh, hows that TiDD10 treating you these days?
Originally Posted by islandphile
In the A-pillar installs you've done, was there a common thread to how you ended up angling the tweets? And how high up the pillar off the dash?
Every car is different naturally so I would not be surprised if it was always a different application. Thanks for the info, Good Stuff!!
Every car is different naturally so I would not be surprised if it was always a different application. Thanks for the info, Good Stuff!!
04-03-2006, 07:58 AM
#50
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
Heh, heh, heh...... Adam has gutted his Bleemer to go racing. Car audio is a thing of the past for him............ for now. Anyone want to buy some SERIOUS audio as he's got a lot of goodies that he SHOULD sell...... so he can buy more racing parts for the car !!!
BTW, I agree with EVERYTHING above ........ the tweeter angling, the 6K rule, etc, etc. Excellent thread. Although some vehicles will dictate minor variances to this. BTW, if someone has found that PERFECT mid, they are being ****** and not tell people about it........... lots of goodies out there but I haven't seen/heard the perfect mid ........ within a decent price range anyways.
I still think if I was trying to build the perfect SQ car, I would gut and build a custom dash, and go with a 2-way up front with a single in dash sub........ and then two 15's out back running AP.
BTW, I agree with EVERYTHING above ........ the tweeter angling, the 6K rule, etc, etc. Excellent thread. Although some vehicles will dictate minor variances to this. BTW, if someone has found that PERFECT mid, they are being ****** and not tell people about it........... lots of goodies out there but I haven't seen/heard the perfect mid ........ within a decent price range anyways.
I still think if I was trying to build the perfect SQ car, I would gut and build a custom dash, and go with a 2-way up front with a single in dash sub........ and then two 15's out back running AP.
