How much equipment is enough?
10-27-2003, 10:22 PM
#11
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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I'm going to respond in order of posted concerns.
The DQX has 24bit A/D and D/A converters. As to adding pieces to the signal path, I use the DQX to combine 2 features I need into 1 box.(EQ and active X.O.)
I've got a ton of experience with really high end home audio equipment. I tend to trust my ears more than measurement instruments. The Four.1i did not affect the signal tonally. It did however place a viel between me and the music. When I removed the Four.1i, I felt closer to the music. Take that as you like, but to me that's all that counts.
I find the output of the DVA-7996 at full volume to be pretty clean. I admit that it does sound cleaner at 30 with very dynamic music, but I don't find the sound offensive at 35.
I said in my original post that I rechecked the gains by listening to set the final gain levels. I use the lights because they are just as said, a crude method. They get me in the ballpark, I fine tune after that.
And from the manuals:
Alpine DVA-7996 output=4.0 volts RMS
A.C. Four.1i maximum INPUT and OUTPUT level = 9.5 volts RMS
A.C. DQX maximun INPUT and OUTPUT level = 7.5 volts RMS
(for those in the know, the input and output impedences match up fine for the above equipment)
Mqqball, I totally agree with you about using an ocilliscope. I also agree that signal level isn't a measure of fidelity.
Adam
The DQX has 24bit A/D and D/A converters. As to adding pieces to the signal path, I use the DQX to combine 2 features I need into 1 box.(EQ and active X.O.)
I've got a ton of experience with really high end home audio equipment. I tend to trust my ears more than measurement instruments. The Four.1i did not affect the signal tonally. It did however place a viel between me and the music. When I removed the Four.1i, I felt closer to the music. Take that as you like, but to me that's all that counts.
I find the output of the DVA-7996 at full volume to be pretty clean. I admit that it does sound cleaner at 30 with very dynamic music, but I don't find the sound offensive at 35.
I said in my original post that I rechecked the gains by listening to set the final gain levels. I use the lights because they are just as said, a crude method. They get me in the ballpark, I fine tune after that.
And from the manuals:
Alpine DVA-7996 output=4.0 volts RMS
A.C. Four.1i maximum INPUT and OUTPUT level = 9.5 volts RMS
A.C. DQX maximun INPUT and OUTPUT level = 7.5 volts RMS
(for those in the know, the input and output impedences match up fine for the above equipment)
Mqqball, I totally agree with you about using an ocilliscope. I also agree that signal level isn't a measure of fidelity.
Adam
10-28-2003, 07:00 AM
#12
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
I still think at your level of installation, you should own something like a Pioneer P9 combo. IT has all the flexibility you need for what you are thinking of doing and none of the silliness you don't need. I've gone through the whole components blah, blah, blah and then I eventually just dumped it all and forked out the cash for the P9 stuff. Have to say, couldn't be happier. You can read specs until you go purple/green in the face. They don't mean **** (to a certain degree) as it's all in the install for the first 90%. And until you have gotten that first 90% squared away, Burr/Browns and all the other mumbo-jumbo means nothing. But then you say "Tom, why are you recommending P9..........isn't that the same kinda BS ........ ain't that the calling the kettle black??" Well, yes and no. It's just that the P9 puts everything you need to be able to do in a DIN mounted deck with a hide away chassis. And it's built to work together and it's flexibility for the price is awesome. And that's without getting into the tech specs of what's onboard. What else is out there for a reasonable price wher eyou can control everything from a single DIN ???? Alpine needs two DIN openings.......... and Eclipse doesn't have the same flexibility. And Audio control, you either have to hack and cut, or get out of your seat and wander to the back of the vehicle. P9, and used ones can be had for reasonable pricing. It's the way for uppper end installs for SQ......... so I think anyways.
And yes, less is more. Mind you, I tried to get away with a 2-way front stage and so far haven't been able to pull it off. So now I'm going into a 3-way with a little more success. So I went from less to more. More equipment, more complicated to install and tune and MO MONEY. go figure. I think it's all about have flexibility in your thinking, your design AND YOUR POCKET BOOK !!!!! Mhuuuuaaaaaaaaah!!!
Just don't tell that to my wife as she has no idea what I'm hiding in the truck............. yet 
[ October 28, 2003, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: dawgsbreakfast ]
And yes, less is more. Mind you, I tried to get away with a 2-way front stage and so far haven't been able to pull it off. So now I'm going into a 3-way with a little more success. So I went from less to more. More equipment, more complicated to install and tune and MO MONEY. go figure. I think it's all about have flexibility in your thinking, your design AND YOUR POCKET BOOK !!!!! Mhuuuuaaaaaaaaah!!!
Just don't tell that to my wife as she has no idea what I'm hiding in the truck............. yet [ October 28, 2003, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: dawgsbreakfast ]
10-28-2003, 08:13 AM
#15
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I totally forgot about the faceplate thing. Thanks guys, I'll leave a slot open on the dash for it. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
The P9 combo was my original first choice. Then I got de-railed by all the Audison goodies. Those amps sound so good that I forgot all about the P9.
Adam
The P9 combo was my original first choice. Then I got de-railed by all the Audison goodies. Those amps sound so good that I forgot all about the P9.
Adam
10-28-2003, 08:18 AM
#16
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Oh, and one other thing, how the heck do you guys rationalize this kind of expenditure to the wife/GF. The burr-brown mumbo jumbo got me $3000 more spending money. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I think the specs were writen to confuse people into spending more money.
Adam
I think the specs were writen to confuse people into spending more money.
Adam
10-28-2003, 03:49 PM
#17
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 550
I guess intergration is the key... For the last 13 years manufacturers have been trying to develop fully intergrated systems. From the old Alpine 3681s to the PRA-H400, to the current F1 status its a continual movement towards integration. The P9 is really a fantastic piece...a headunit, eq, and crossover all in one.
As I'm writing this, I'm thinking about my own setup...and laughing...
Alpine 1310 Tuner/CD Controller
Alpine 5957s Changer
Alpine 3900 D/A Converter
Audio Control EQT
KEF KE6 Crossover
Blade DSP Sub-Servo
So much for intergration... It's semi-installed so I can't comment on the SQ of the setup. Although, I haven't spent nearly what a P9 would cost, I am paying for it in other ways. I've spent hours apon hours trying to locate all the pieces in the trunk. In addition, I'm sure that setting the gains on all the devices will be a PITA (I'm glad I have a scope to help me out). Even fine tuning will be pain as all the adjustments will have to be made from the trunk.
I have to admit that I was leaning towards the old sckool theme (in addition to the above, I'm running PPI Art .2 Series Amps) ... Let's hope it pans out...
In regards to the Audio Control DQX, it is a nice piece but is missing a few features. It really does need a dash mount controller/display and the crossover should be a 4 way with the ability to go 3 way. This would make it alot more flexible. One other feature that would be a nice touch would be the addition of a volume control in the indash controller accompanied by digital in. This would allow the user to go digital right to the AC unit and control the volume at the preamp stage of the DQX... I can hear dawgs saying right now... Why wait for all that when you can get it now with the P9...
As I'm writing this, I'm thinking about my own setup...and laughing...
Alpine 1310 Tuner/CD Controller
Alpine 5957s Changer
Alpine 3900 D/A Converter
Audio Control EQT
KEF KE6 Crossover
Blade DSP Sub-Servo
So much for intergration... It's semi-installed so I can't comment on the SQ of the setup. Although, I haven't spent nearly what a P9 would cost, I am paying for it in other ways. I've spent hours apon hours trying to locate all the pieces in the trunk. In addition, I'm sure that setting the gains on all the devices will be a PITA (I'm glad I have a scope to help me out). Even fine tuning will be pain as all the adjustments will have to be made from the trunk.
I have to admit that I was leaning towards the old sckool theme (in addition to the above, I'm running PPI Art .2 Series Amps) ... Let's hope it pans out...
In regards to the Audio Control DQX, it is a nice piece but is missing a few features. It really does need a dash mount controller/display and the crossover should be a 4 way with the ability to go 3 way. This would make it alot more flexible. One other feature that would be a nice touch would be the addition of a volume control in the indash controller accompanied by digital in. This would allow the user to go digital right to the AC unit and control the volume at the preamp stage of the DQX... I can hear dawgs saying right now... Why wait for all that when you can get it now with the P9...
10-29-2003, 06:37 AM
#19
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Yeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah, you go git the new Audio control piece and then have to carve another hole somewhere to mount that new display But seriously, I can't remember the specs exactly on the AC piece from last years CES when I saw it but I vaguely seem to remember that the audio control piece was not as flexible as the P9. ..........I've been been down this road with trying everything else out there. Then one day I was monkeying around with a P9 and saw the light. BTW, the only other pieces coming somewhat close in abilities and all in one DIN that I forgot to mention, was the Sony XES (never owned that one) or the Sony C90 and 4000 combo (yup, owned that for a while).......... and wasn't there a very old Clarion piece as well that made an attempt??? And from what I can remember, both of those Sony units were awful display wise unless it was night time. you couldn't see anything. How in the world did Sony expect someone to being doing a buck forty on the highway and tune the system when they can't even read the display !??!??!?!? [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
[ October 29, 2003, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: dawgsbreakfast ]
But seriously, I can't remember the specs exactly on the AC piece from last years CES when I saw it but I vaguely seem to remember that the audio control piece was not as flexible as the P9. ..........I've been been down this road with trying everything else out there. Then one day I was monkeying around with a P9 and saw the light. BTW, the only other pieces coming somewhat close in abilities and all in one DIN that I forgot to mention, was the Sony XES (never owned that one) or the Sony C90 and 4000 combo (yup, owned that for a while).......... and wasn't there a very old Clarion piece as well that made an attempt??? And from what I can remember, both of those Sony units were awful display wise unless it was night time. you couldn't see anything. How in the world did Sony expect someone to being doing a buck forty on the highway and tune the system when they can't even read the display !??!??!?!? [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] [ October 29, 2003, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: dawgsbreakfast ]
10-29-2003, 04:14 PM
#20
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The DQX has about 1/4 of the options that the P9 combo offers. Correct me if I'm wrong Tom, but here is what ISN'T offered on the DQX.
-Time Delay control of every output
-Under or overlapping X/O points
-Adjustable X/O slopes for every output
-More bands of parametric EQ
-More inputs (Front and Rear plus sub)
-More outputs (Adjustable)
I'm not quoting a manual so I could be wrong on a few points, but the DQX is a much simpler (option wise) box. I think most of us here know how to use all of the above options, so I'm not going to preach about how having more features creates a greater potential for a system to sound worse.
The P9 wins in my book. So....anybody want to buy an Audio Control Four.1i? [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Adam
-Time Delay control of every output
-Under or overlapping X/O points
-Adjustable X/O slopes for every output
-More bands of parametric EQ
-More inputs (Front and Rear plus sub)
-More outputs (Adjustable)
I'm not quoting a manual so I could be wrong on a few points, but the DQX is a much simpler (option wise) box. I think most of us here know how to use all of the above options, so I'm not going to preach about how having more features creates a greater potential for a system to sound worse.
The P9 wins in my book. So....anybody want to buy an Audio Control Four.1i? [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Adam
