my first year competing in sq
09-14-2006, 03:24 PM
#11
johns got a pillar tweets. rookie of the year.
all lm saying is if your wondering where to begin and your new to the sq game
then start in the pillar. lm a rookie and so is this advice. if your an expert then your opinions can spin a newbee in a unfocused time wasting direction.
want to get out of the gate quickly with succes, A pillar
l new this would be a stickler with some. l wish l could go to the finals and do the numbers on who has what. l strongly disagree that its a trend
all lm saying is if your wondering where to begin and your new to the sq game
then start in the pillar. lm a rookie and so is this advice. if your an expert then your opinions can spin a newbee in a unfocused time wasting direction.
want to get out of the gate quickly with succes, A pillar
l new this would be a stickler with some. l wish l could go to the finals and do the numbers on who has what. l strongly disagree that its a trend
09-14-2006, 04:49 PM
#12
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 48
As someone who has been to the last 5 world finals. Primary tweets in the kicks are still the dominiate location.. I say primary because some use a 2nd set padded down in the a-pillers..
primary A-piller tweets are not a sure method way of getting a good/decent sq score.. Nor is kick panels. Everything is a trade off.. Having great height will only insure good scores with a inexperenced judge, or if its single seat. Theres a lot of a-piller cars that end up giving up points in other areas.
I have had both a-piller and kick only setups.. The kick panel setup IMO scored better in the technical/imaging areas then the a-piller one over all.. The a-piller setup was only better in height, by 1-2 points.. In the bigger picture of the score card 1-2 points is little to gain if you loose points in other areas (If you have a experenced judge).
The reason for its popularity? Because a hand full of very skilled installers have done it and done really well. Its no different then brand popularity.. If all the best competitors use brand X and win, brand X will become the new "Best".
And yes even the "best" competitors are not perfect. One of the guys that helped make a-piller tweets popular, buwalda.. His altima was about 2"s inside of the a-pillers.
primary A-piller tweets are not a sure method way of getting a good/decent sq score.. Nor is kick panels. Everything is a trade off.. Having great height will only insure good scores with a inexperenced judge, or if its single seat. Theres a lot of a-piller cars that end up giving up points in other areas.
I have had both a-piller and kick only setups.. The kick panel setup IMO scored better in the technical/imaging areas then the a-piller one over all.. The a-piller setup was only better in height, by 1-2 points.. In the bigger picture of the score card 1-2 points is little to gain if you loose points in other areas (If you have a experenced judge).
The reason for its popularity? Because a hand full of very skilled installers have done it and done really well. Its no different then brand popularity.. If all the best competitors use brand X and win, brand X will become the new "Best".
And yes even the "best" competitors are not perfect. One of the guys that helped make a-piller tweets popular, buwalda.. His altima was about 2"s inside of the a-pillers.
09-14-2006, 04:55 PM
#13
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by surround sound
want to get out of the gate quickly with succes, A pillar
IMO to do primary a-piller correctly you need to cross them over above 5.5khz and possibly @ 6khz.. You need a mid to play up that high. Very few do, well. Alot are 4"s, and you oftan need seperate midbass to play midbass.. Now you have midbass speakers to locate to.. Now you need a 4way xover (AND one that does 6khz, not many do), and 6 channels of amplification. Not to mention you need to locate the midbass and drivers so they dont hurt the passanger side, if you plan on doing 2 seat judging.
WOW Things have gotten costly for the 1st timer "just out of the gate"..
Comparied to a kick panel setup of 6/tweet w/passive and 2 channel amp.. Much cheaper and easier to tune.
KISS!
Oh and dont tell me about t-alignment.. Tell that to the usac competitors who tried to crossover to iasca.. They got creamed, even with there F1!
09-14-2006, 05:26 PM
#14
JOHN????
Hay that's me!
I did use "A" pillar tweets in my rookie year. But one advantage I had was a woofer that could play 5-6Khz and a wife that let me sit in my driveway for hours aiming my kicks. Which helped out a lot. Now this dosent mean much, but 2 of the 3 best sounding cars I've ever heard only use kick panel mounted speakers.
I understand what Surroundsound is saying though, in this area most decent sounding cars seem to use the "A" pillar location for the tweeters. So I can see where he's getting his opinion from.
Hay that's me!
I did use "A" pillar tweets in my rookie year. But one advantage I had was a woofer that could play 5-6Khz and a wife that let me sit in my driveway for hours aiming my kicks. Which helped out a lot. Now this dosent mean much, but 2 of the 3 best sounding cars I've ever heard only use kick panel mounted speakers.
I understand what Surroundsound is saying though, in this area most decent sounding cars seem to use the "A" pillar location for the tweeters. So I can see where he's getting his opinion from.
09-14-2006, 08:51 PM
#15
thx for the insight. lm guessing kickpanel stuff should point toward the occupant as appossed to firing at each other.
anyway lm going pillar next year with a high ranging 4" in the dash as was suggested, with a high x over and a 6 in the door. so ya l will go with a 4 way . the 701 does the job.
despite what l say the car layout is what really dictates the situation. the beauty of sq is you will never see the same install twice
anyway lm going pillar next year with a high ranging 4" in the dash as was suggested, with a high x over and a 6 in the door. so ya l will go with a 4 way . the 701 does the job.
despite what l say the car layout is what really dictates the situation. the beauty of sq is you will never see the same install twice
09-14-2006, 09:15 PM
#17
looking forward to a second year challenge , a 4way will do it.
will time delay not compensate for path length. was told sound becomes directional at around 250 hz. lm guessing the higher the freq the faster it travels
will time delay not compensate for path length. was told sound becomes directional at around 250 hz. lm guessing the higher the freq the faster it travels
09-14-2006, 09:28 PM
#18
Yankee
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,599
A few years ago kicks were in vogue and today a-pillar tweets are vogue. I think certain makes/ models benefit from a-pillar tweets and some cars CAN NOT have mid-bass kicks. SQ competition is not an absolute (nothing works for everyone). I love when you do something unique and vaguely successful and the 'me-too' crowd tries to copy with mediocre results. Seriously do what works in YOUR car.
MECA rules on how SQ is judged http://www.mecacaraudio.com/2006SQLRules/index.php
MECA rules on how SQ is judged http://www.mecacaraudio.com/2006SQLRules/index.php
09-14-2006, 09:37 PM
#19
0 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 48
excessive use of time alignment like your talking about only helps for one seat.
from 100-500 its all path lengths, direction doesnt generally matter. 500 up to about 4khz it changes from path lengths to speaker angle/direction IE intensity differences.
Thats the quick and easy answer.. Its more complex then that.
oh and sound travels at the same speed, doesnt matter what freq it is.
from 100-500 its all path lengths, direction doesnt generally matter. 500 up to about 4khz it changes from path lengths to speaker angle/direction IE intensity differences.
Thats the quick and easy answer.. Its more complex then that.
oh and sound travels at the same speed, doesnt matter what freq it is.
Last edited by VWmk5; 09-14-2006 at 09:45 PM.
