My new front system in dashboard... Pics inside
03-14-2005, 02:00 PM
#1
0 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 16
Maybe somebody would be interested taking a look at some pic of my new front-system/dashboard installation...
Iīm almost finished, the a-pilars for the tweeters should get some more work, but the dashboard is ready to show now...
To improve the sound staging I decided to build a modified dashboard with 6,5'' woofers in it, car is a ī95 Volkswagen Golf.
The speakers used are Helix RS6 Competition.
Old original Volkswagen dashboard:
The wooferīs basket was cut at two sides to make shure that the woofers would fit in the tight dashboard, the diameter was reduced about 0,4''.
While laminating the woofer plates...
Damping the whole dashboard after fiberglasing...
[ March 14, 2005, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: JPSpecial ]
Iīm almost finished, the a-pilars for the tweeters should get some more work, but the dashboard is ready to show now...
To improve the sound staging I decided to build a modified dashboard with 6,5'' woofers in it, car is a ī95 Volkswagen Golf.
The speakers used are Helix RS6 Competition.
Old original Volkswagen dashboard:
The wooferīs basket was cut at two sides to make shure that the woofers would fit in the tight dashboard, the diameter was reduced about 0,4''.
While laminating the woofer plates...
Damping the whole dashboard after fiberglasing...
[ March 14, 2005, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: JPSpecial ]
03-14-2005, 02:09 PM
#2
0 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 16
Ready to get in the car again, also a preparation for a centerspeaker (4'' or 5'' possible) has been made, the hight of the right side of the dash was adapted to the left. The covers of the ventilation is black acryl... 
In car again, covers for the woofers are still missing...
Covers without grille..
Completely with grille (not that good picture
)... As I already said, donīt look at the a-pilars, they are still under construction. 
The system is running without a sub at the moment, and also needs some more fine tuning, but the sound is already now better than I expected it to be... After installing the sub and setting up the sound the car should be ready for sq-competition...
(please excuse my sometimes terrible english) [img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]
In car again, covers for the woofers are still missing...
Covers without grille..
Completely with grille (not that good picture
)... As I already said, donīt look at the a-pilars, they are still under construction. The system is running without a sub at the moment, and also needs some more fine tuning, but the sound is already now better than I expected it to be... After installing the sub and setting up the sound the car should be ready for sq-competition...
(please excuse my sometimes terrible english) [img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]
03-14-2005, 02:48 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
looks interesting/cool, how does it sound with the mids facing the windshield like that, do the mids have an enclosure? if so how big, and what do you think mounting them like that gained you, i liek the idea nad am doing something kind of like that myself right now
03-15-2005, 06:35 AM
#4
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
Very cool.
How come you made the cut-outs in the dash so large? Are you leaving room to install something else in the future?
I think this 6.5" setup on the dash will definitely need time alignment dialed in. In the lower frequency ranges on those 6.5", the PLD's become more and more critical. But it will allow you to have awesome up front and high midbass response if they don't need an enclosure.
With those tweeters, (Defro can correct me here if I'm wrong), but a lot of competitors in North America are aiming them to be pretty much in parallel with the front windshield...... so that they fire across infront of the listener. I did this with a set of DLS UR1 tweeters and it sounded very very nice for imaging and staging....... with very little tuning dialed into them. I found in the higher frequency bands, you can control it by the angling of the driver very easily instead of processing it all to death.
Just some thoughts [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
How come you made the cut-outs in the dash so large? Are you leaving room to install something else in the future?
I think this 6.5" setup on the dash will definitely need time alignment dialed in. In the lower frequency ranges on those 6.5", the PLD's become more and more critical. But it will allow you to have awesome up front and high midbass response if they don't need an enclosure.
With those tweeters, (Defro can correct me here if I'm wrong), but a lot of competitors in North America are aiming them to be pretty much in parallel with the front windshield...... so that they fire across infront of the listener. I did this with a set of DLS UR1 tweeters and it sounded very very nice for imaging and staging....... with very little tuning dialed into them. I found in the higher frequency bands, you can control it by the angling of the driver very easily instead of processing it all to death.
Just some thoughts [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
03-15-2005, 07:18 AM
#5
50 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 206
correct me if i'm wrong, But the dash in the first photo, and the one in the last photo is a completly different dash ?
Noticable on the passengers side near the air vent and the lack of dip/shelf on the dash top infront of the passenger.
anyways....looks cool...........it will get your stage up high
Noticable on the passengers side near the air vent and the lack of dip/shelf on the dash top infront of the passenger.
anyways....looks cool...........it will get your stage up high
03-15-2005, 07:31 AM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
lots of guy that i have seen run there parallel with the dash but some dont. i think it really depends on the off axis response of the tweeter, a guy once told me never to have your pillar mounted tweeters anymore closer than 45 degrees to the windshield. have tested the theory, it seems to ring true with some and not all tweeters and the common thing between the ones it reacted negatively with were the ones with increased off axis, this can be attributed to increased amplitude with secondary reflection or something, im not exactly sure but it was a no no for some tweeters
03-15-2005, 10:50 AM
#7
It sure does look like a different dash, as the first pic is the glovebox end and the second pic is the gauge cluster end. The same dash dude, you must be seeing things this morning, not enough coffee perhaps?
03-15-2005, 10:56 AM
#8
1000 Watt CAFz'r
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,649
Parallel to the windshield, not the dash.
When I ran my tweeters in this configuration, they were mounted very close and parallel to the front windshield...... and slightly angled upward. I can't say I've tried this with many tweeters so it could be very true that it will not work in all cases. I don't know for sure. Mine worked very well. And the dash on my SUV was deeeeeeep so I could get the tweeters mounted quite far forward...... although I don't think this is a concern. The angling was much more important I think. I also had a set of prototype 2.5 mid-domes facing directly up right under the tweeter location. anyways, in my application this worked very well. The ONLY REAL issue was the lack of midbass I had. I had 8" midbass in the kick panels and then tried them in the doors. Worked ok but not good enuf for my liking. The midbass in my SUV sucked. I never had the time to ever get that midbass thing sorted out. I had ideas to try but the system was gutted out......... and the SUV handed over to my wife for child shuttling duties
When I ran my tweeters in this configuration, they were mounted very close and parallel to the front windshield...... and slightly angled upward. I can't say I've tried this with many tweeters so it could be very true that it will not work in all cases. I don't know for sure. Mine worked very well. And the dash on my SUV was deeeeeeep so I could get the tweeters mounted quite far forward...... although I don't think this is a concern. The angling was much more important I think. I also had a set of prototype 2.5 mid-domes facing directly up right under the tweeter location. anyways, in my application this worked very well. The ONLY REAL issue was the lack of midbass I had. I had 8" midbass in the kick panels and then tried them in the doors. Worked ok but not good enuf for my liking. The midbass in my SUV sucked. I never had the time to ever get that midbass thing sorted out. I had ideas to try but the system was gutted out......... and the SUV handed over to my wife for child shuttling duties
03-15-2005, 11:05 AM
#9
0 Watt CAFz'r
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 16
Thanx for all your answers!
Hope I wonīt forget any question to give an answer...
The woofers donīt have an enclosure, I tried putting them in an enclosure of about 3,5-4 litres (there was no more space in the dash for a bigger one on driverīs side, bigger enclosure on passengerīs side woundnīt have been that problem), but the sound was quite better when they are playing "freeair" in the dash. They are only dampened with Muhwolle (donīt know the english word, itīs this).
There are not that much problems with sound-refletcions on the windshild, there is a peak at about 1k-1,5k hz, then curve drops down to 2,5k hz, another peak at 3,5k hz... I can post a graph of the frequenzy response on sunday (have no scanner this week) if u like...
@defro: I saw the pics of your install in the Neon, itīs really great work, and a much bigger projekt then mine is/was! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
The cutouts are that large because maybe in the future there will be another installation, maybe some horns or adding some midrange drivers for a three way system...
The staging of midbass and especially of deep male voices is really awesome! with the alignment of the tweets i tried a lot last year (one reason for the ****-awfully looking a-pilars), and for me itīs the best result if they are aligned directly on the listening position on driverīs side.
And yes, the dash on first pic and the last one isnīt the same, the first one is the original golf-dashboard, and the one on the other pics was one before too
but because of the dip on passengerīs side the right woofer would be about 1'' lower and with other alignment then the one on the left side, so i just modified the dash and "removed" the dip to have both woofers mounted on tha same hight and with same alignment.
Hope I wonīt forget any question to give an answer...
The woofers donīt have an enclosure, I tried putting them in an enclosure of about 3,5-4 litres (there was no more space in the dash for a bigger one on driverīs side, bigger enclosure on passengerīs side woundnīt have been that problem), but the sound was quite better when they are playing "freeair" in the dash. They are only dampened with Muhwolle (donīt know the english word, itīs this).
There are not that much problems with sound-refletcions on the windshild, there is a peak at about 1k-1,5k hz, then curve drops down to 2,5k hz, another peak at 3,5k hz... I can post a graph of the frequenzy response on sunday (have no scanner this week) if u like...
@defro: I saw the pics of your install in the Neon, itīs really great work, and a much bigger projekt then mine is/was! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
The cutouts are that large because maybe in the future there will be another installation, maybe some horns or adding some midrange drivers for a three way system...
The staging of midbass and especially of deep male voices is really awesome! with the alignment of the tweets i tried a lot last year (one reason for the ****-awfully looking a-pilars), and for me itīs the best result if they are aligned directly on the listening position on driverīs side.
And yes, the dash on first pic and the last one isnīt the same, the first one is the original golf-dashboard, and the one on the other pics was one before too
but because of the dip on passengerīs side the right woofer would be about 1'' lower and with other alignment then the one on the left side, so i just modified the dash and "removed" the dip to have both woofers mounted on tha same hight and with same alignment.
