These 2 products are touted as the top of their respect lines and fields.

I'm looking for any information from people that have installed or used either of these products.

Thanks,

Adam

Oh, so you don't own these? By the sounds of it from the other thread where I was poking fun you made it sound like you owned. I wasn't aware the conversation was about gear we DON'T own. ;) heh just buggin.

To be honest though, I really hope you don't base a lot of decision on price. Just because the 7990 is absurdly expensive does not mean it is really any better than a Denon Z1, or even R1 for that matter, the new 9255, etc. I mean, in many of your posts you elude to the extremely expensive gear you have access to and while equipment that is hand made or has had a lot of time invested into it to make it a near-perfect performing piece of equipment costs money to make, just because it's big dollar doesn't always mean it's better. But I'm sure you know that. If the 7990 was $999 would it be any less impressive?

All that being said (I hope I wasn't being inflammatory), that PXA (PHA?)-900 piece is pretty slick. If it was $299 I'd buy one :D I can't really say that I've heard good nor bad things about those items as it seems very few own them and those that do usually have some kind of show car that doesn't have ultimate SQ as it's goal.

Can't comment on the deck as I don't know anyone with it...

As for the TLRs I hear they are an extra bitch to install because the "waveguides" mean not only angle is important but also orientation and they aren't round...

So far I've gotten what I've paid for.

I've been offered the oportunity to purchase a 7990 at a very good price to make way for the new F#1 DVD head unit in a display board.

I'm actually trying to move away from processing, and more into install and component quality.

Unfortunately, there aren't to many sets of TLRs around. I'm a try before I buy kind of guy, but it will be tough to get that opportunity. Every little bit of information helps. I think Dave Mac has something he could share on them though?

Adam

i am an f#1 dealer(life is geat), i have sold 3 sets of 7990/pxah900, and it is the most stellar sounding and well built products i have ever used, i have never seen a processor that is as comprehensive and great sounding, the best way to describe it lots or people say using precessors makes the sound sound processed(not sure i agree but thats another topic) the F#1 doesnt create that charateristic, the cd played probobly isnt any better than the denon or whatever but the processor and the software it comes with is the most stunning piece of car audio ever produced, period, unless you have ever used it, you will never know, this post could be 10 pages long, there are lots of people on this forum i wish had the chance to use one(tim, dukk, pei,dwvw,tinted haha) you are one of the few people that would truly appreciate such a well engineered and desinged piece

^^^That's kind of funny because I"ve been considering the relivance of that processor.

Thanks for the feedback on the gear defro!

Adam

Well put Defro...I have played around with two F-#1 installs and your comments are bang on, great transport and a great processor.

Adam, some people have taken the top Denon Z1 transport as they prefer the sound vs. 7990 and used the PXA-H900 as the processor with it. Many are of the opinion that the H900 cannot be beat as far as processors go, at least right now.

Can't wait to see what the new DVD head is going to sound like... The BS thing with Alpine is that the NEW F-#1 DVD-Audio system is propriatory so you'll have to spend huge (???) dollars and replace your old $7000 F-#1 system ...talk about milking your customers

i find it interesting that few people have responed to this thread as it is one one of the best topics posted lately, as it is designed to induce personal opinions

^^^Well...it's separated the men from the boys. I know a few of the other heavy hitters like DWVW, Tim, and D-Mac haven't weighed in yet though. So I'd still like to hear more about both the PXA-H900 and the TLRs.

Man I've got to get my car to a better place in the country so I can TRY some this gear at shops. I think Tom would let me move into his garage if it wasn't packed full of rusting 2002 parts. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, keep the comments coming, I appreciate them all.

BTW - Vance Dickason is currently working on a project with my Dad, so I'm trying to pick his brain on the tweeter front as well.

Adam

[ May 30, 2004, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: PEI330Ci ]

Not me? [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]

I'm gonna have to pay Kelowna a visit some day.

^^^^Read your sig. ha ha ha [img]smile.gif[/img]

ok u2

Islandfile,

I was wondering how you would go about connecting the Z1 to the H900? This is an interesting option to me since I have a Z1 and am presently using all Zapco EQ's and such which present some difficulty due to size and limited functionality. Plus I'm just not happy with 'em.

[ May 30, 2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: droy ]

I think that is simply becuz not too many people have even seen up close, let alone played with either a 7990 or TLRs [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

I'd be happy to do some field testing on that F#1 setup for ya though [img]graemlins/deal4u.gif[/img]

Oh, are you a heavy hitter? No one knew. [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] :D

Does anyone on here actually own a 7990 or TLRs? Pretty exclusive pieces. Defro, nice job selling 3 F#1 systems! Cha-ching! What kind of installs and such were they?

[quote]Originally posted by Dukk:

Quote:

---

I think that is simply becuz not too many people have even seen up close, let alone played with either a 7990 or TLRs [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

---

[img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img]

Listen to and play with a lot of things at finals..

[ May 30, 2004, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: chev2 ]

^ That's pretty low impact though. I mean PLAY with as in install, swear at, re-install, you know - live with them [img]tongue.gif[/img]

the h900 can be used with any source that has optical out, as it has its own controller and display, we put a set in an f350, a set in an integra ,and used the cd player by itself in another, and used the processor exclusively in another, i actually have a client, the one with the f350 who wants me to build him a home theater utilizing the h900, oh an i am considering removing tha ivad900 and pxah700 from my neon and using the new f#1 gear, but we'll see

I have never owned either product. I'm not that fortunate [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]

I have heard the F1 and can say this. I actually have heard two cars with the F1 system in them and they sounded awful. One was the S500 or S600 Benz in the Alpine booth at CES and another was a BMW 5 series at Dark Knights. Only point is this, you can make the best gear sound like shiat if you don't know what you're doing. But evberyone knew that already. I've actually yet to hear an F1 system that is impressive to listen to. I bet they are out there, but I haven't heard one yet.

The Alpine pieces are top notch from what I understand though. If money is not in the equation, then the F1 is the way to go.

TLR's, talk to Anthony Davis on Car Sound. I believe he uses them in his Ford Contour and they are A-pillar mounted too :D

Thanks Tom

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Yup, I have no experience with those pieces either. I do really like the PXA-H700 though and I played around quite a bit with one of those.

the 700, in my opinion, is 75% of the 900, in terms of sq, i agree the 700 is an amazing piece for the $$$$, no better value out there, imo, i gress with tom the c class at ces had some tonality problems, that car was built and tuned in japan and it sounded like it, you definitely have to have some serious tuning skills to make something like the 900 be used to its full proential but damn is it fun [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] to play with

[ May 31, 2004, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: defro13 ]

Islandfile,

I was wondering how you would go about connecting the Z1 to the H900? This is an interesting option to me since I have a Z1 and am presently using all Zapco EQ's and such which present some difficulty due to size and limited functionality. Plus I'm just not happy with 'em. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Hey Doug, what's wrong with the Zaps?
You can use the digital outputs on the Z1 and connect to the PXA-H900, however, If I was going to replace your processors, it would be with a Behringer unit of some kind, and then I would use your Symbalink cables from there....pick yourself up a good set of RCA's to go to the behringer. The Behringer, while it does not have the capabilities of the H900, is a better product in regards to SQ IMO.

Nick Wingate uses(used) the Z1 with a h900 off Audison VRx's and full Focal speaker set up including the new Focal Berillium tweets....Very good sounding car.

As for the 7990, I wasn't that impressed, I would actually take my 8250 over it, or a Z1...I LOVE the analog volume control on the Z1, it rocks...I found the 7990 kinda "flimsy" so to speak.....what I did like was the tuning capabilities of the 7990/H900 combo.....I'd definatly take it over a P9 combo because I found the F#1 units much easier to use...ask anyone with a P9 or that has had one...they are confusing.

Just my opinion, but I think it somewhat pointless to say that a certain car using whatever gear sounds bad so the gear they use must sound bad because as we all know each and every sound system sounds very different! I would say the only good way to compare the sound of something would be to direct compare it with your current equipment in your own car. How a car is tuned can obviously influence how that mega-buck or mega-cheap gear will sound. I know one of the preferred ways to demo something new you want to buy is to listen to it in someones car but look at the variables:
1) It might not be the same make and model as your car
2) The tuning will most likely be different
3) That one piece of gear you are interested in probably is connected to a lot of other pieces you don't or won't own.

All that considered, how can one really take a good comparitive listen to something if not in their own car? Adam, I would say the best advice for what you want to buy is to try your hardest to find somebody who can loan you what you want to buy or at least go to the shop that has it and see if they can temp. install it in your car for a few hours. Might sound crazy, but when you are plunking down for high dollar gear like that, you better make sure you like it!

i think that wondering if you would like the pxah900 and 7990, is like wondering if you would like to drive ferrari's f-40, its a no brainer, of couse you would

Hey Buddy,

"Hey Doug, what's wrong with the Zaps?"

I like the idea of the added functionality and the reduction in the number of items. In addition, I've heard the F#1 twice and was very impressed overall, but didn't like the 7990 all that much. I much prefer the lay out of the Z1 (simplistic and old school looks...like me). In addition, I had a friend from Texas give me a call recently noting that he had a used one available from a bankrupcy sale...but he called today to let me know he sold it to his brother. Wasn't ment to be I guess...

Ah bummer eh....check out the H700.....equally sweet unit....quite a bit cheaper and has a TON of features, you can still go optical to it from the Z1 too....Or like I said, check out a Behringer unit...they'll have something you'll like I'm sure, pretty sure they even have a unit with a built in RTA as well as the 30 band eq. They are also a whole lot cheaper than a PXA-H900 or H700. The 8024 like I have would cost around $500 after the 12V mod.

SUX 2BU,

I totally agree with you regarding the try before you buy. I don't think you are crazy. In fact, my latest trunk design will allow the exact kind of testing that you suggest to be performed...that is if I don't run out of room first. (latest addition to the trunk of doom, 110V power inverter and the ELF-1 Processor.)

defro,

some people don't like the F-40. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Can't compare the F1 to the P9. HUGE price difference. I actually found that the Pioneer P9 combo was quite user friendly. I still believe it's the best bang for the buck (features wise)if you can score a low mileage one used. Mind you, a solid deck like a Alpine 7949 with the H700 would be even cheaper I think. So I think that the days of yelling and screaming about the "greatness" of the P9 combo are drawing to a close for me.

I haven't yet played with this next setup that I'm going to mention, but I believe it's going to be very nice and transparent. Rockford 8250i with the new Arc Audio DXE. As far as stand alone head units/transports go, the Rockford 8250i is the best bang for the buck I believe. Not sure about the DXE because I haven't installed one and only had limited time to play with one at CES, so can't honestly comment on performance........ yet. Specs look to be heading in the right direction for high end SQ.

Another option is to modify RANE EQ's with an 8250i.


I think the 8250i is my new fav transport. Oh wait........... I guess that's why I sold the P9 combo............. doh :D

[ June 01, 2004, 06:16 AM: Message edited by: dawgsbreakfast ]

Just wait till I get my hands on one of those DXEs...

[

defro,

some people don't like the F-40. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QB][/QUOTE]
yeah, supid people! [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Mmmmmm F-40. Such a sexy car. Gimme that anyday over an F-50. Enzo? Toss up but the F-40 is ubercool. Ford GT40 (new or orignal, but if it's original make it a 427 Mark II please)? Yep, I'd take it over any of those Italian jobs :D

I haven't really had a chance to check out the DXE, but it isn't a 30 band eq, or is it Tom?

Looks cool...I love equipment that comes in REALLY long rectangular heatsinks :D but It does have a 4way crossover I believe or, I could be wrong again, it's happened once before.

Yea, I agree with Tom, the 8250Ti is probably the best bang for buck out there....really sweet sound, AWESOME looks(the gold buttons and aluminum face look sweet together) and VERY simple to use with an easy to understand manual that is not as long as a Stephen King novel like some of the Eclipse units. Would work well with an H900 or H700.....Or a Behringer :D [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

I'll take a Lincoln Mark VIII with an alchol injected 460 and 4.11 posi rear end....18's and 285/30/18 Falken's. Maybe a 2" drop or air-ride with a 4 link.

Or maybe a 92 Mustang with Ford's proto type V-10 that's slated to be in the new Cobra.

pardon my ignorance guys, but what is a behringer, i guess im far out of the loop but never heard of it
i did a bit of reasearch and that little bugger seems like great value for 250$$ u.s. i'd like to try one, where are they available, im not a big fan of using multiple d/a-a/d converters, like the dqt,dqx and so on but that behringer seems like a way better value than the ac stuff [img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img]

[ June 01, 2004, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: defro ]

For processing, I think Behringer is easily the best value out there.

Not expensive at all compared to some like IDQ31's or Rane.

got to www.behringer.com

Check them out ,they have a lot of excellent proccessors, they are built for pro audio however..but you can get 12v mods...which still make it legal for IASCA competition and they are cheap....talk to RobM on ECA he's the best guy to get the mod from. I don't know if there's many music stores near you...a lot of guitar/music shops are starting to bring in Behringer and could likely order the EQ that you like.

However I don't believe you can still get the 8024....next best unit for around the same price is the 1024....it does not have the screen it is an analoge 31 band eq with the 24/48 bit proccessor and a feedback eliminator....

Best unit I can think of that they make.....although it's $530 canadian before the 12v mod and taxes is the 2496....totally digital, with digital inputs and outputs, several software programs to let you expand the unit's functionality and just a really cool look too. TONS of features....both the 8024 and 2496 have built in RTA and hardware option to further expand the units.

[ June 01, 2004, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Brandon ]

The Arc Audio DXE is an ALL analogue 4 way X.O. and multiband parametric EQ that is digitally controlled.

As far as I know, there is just one in Canada currently. Last I heard, the owner has got the silly giggles...

Adam

Multi band eq meaning what? Anything less than 30 bands would be not so good for me because I like to be able to control EVERYTHING. Otherwise, I would like to check one out.

Well Brandon, just a little note on parametrics vs. graphic eqs.... a 7 band parametric has quite a bit more capability & flexibity ( call it more effective ability) than a 1/3 octave graphic (usually 30 band).

Whereas a graphic EQ has specific designated frequncies assigned by the manufacturer at 1/3 octave intervals, a parametric eq allows you to set the actual frequency where the boost/cut is needed, I really like when you can also set the broadness/peakiness of the curve at the frequency of your choosing, referred to as the Q.

As an eqample you could set a frequency at say 150 Hz, maybe you were having a bit of a midbass peak problem...then assign a nice fat Q so that frequncies on both sides of 150 Hz also move in the same direction as your cut, say from 100 to 225 Hz. The wonder of parametric EQ is the ability to affect the entire section of the curve between 100 and 225 Hz by centering on 150 Hz. The curve will be more affected at the tuning frequency and less as you move further away.

You could also choose a skinnier Q and affect only frequencies closer to 150, say 140 to 170 Hz.

Parametric all the way [img]smile.gif[/img] .

I'm hoping to aviod having to use any EQ at all by the time I'm finished. I've used the parametric EQ function of the DQX far more than I have the 30 bands of static EQ. Even then, I'm convinced that it's the last thing you should use to fix and acoustical problem.

Some techniques to consider before EQing:

-Drivers
-Driver enclosure volume
-Driver mounting angle, and location
-Driver baffle material and thickness
-Enclosure shape (interior wall proximity to driver)
-Interior enclosure dampening(would include materials adhered to enclosure walls and stuffing material)
-Near field relflective surface dampening.(this would include dash underside padding or the covering/removal of reflective surfaces in general)
-Far field relflective surface dampening(namely the roof)
-Panel resonance dampening (namely doors, and rear seat/trunk area. But, roofs have been known to benifit from this)
-Cross over frequency and slope
-Individual level setting of each driver (Gains)

AFTER optimizing all of the above, try to pick just ONE area that you feel needs to be improved. Pick only one frequency, and play with that in small increments for a week. Here's the key, USE A LOG BOOK. Write down your settings, how it sounds, and other general impressions. Keep a diary of what you are doing on the car. It helps to chart trends, and your over all progress. If you are serious about competing, I'd do a little write up of each event you enter. I'd include the judges impressions, areas of suggested improvement, and what you plan to do to get there.

Damn this stuff is a ton of work! This SQ thing is hard.

The DXE is not cheap guys...

Adam