Simplifying - amps onboard digital processors
Thread Starter
50 Watt CAFz'r
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 113
How about this comparison, since it really spells out what at this point seems like my only two options:
(and again - any suggestions to the contrary are appreciated!
)
1) SXRC remote controller and Kicker SX series amps.
2) Alpine PXA-H700 and Audison/DLS/Tru/etc. amps.
My take:
Obviously, the PXA-H700 has more features than the Kicker amps onboard processors do. The question is how much of that extra processing in the end will simply lay stagnant, unused.
If I'm doing my job right - executing this install with acoustics in mind - while it may be a bit much to say I couldn't end up using some processing, a major goal is to try to address most issues fundamentally, rather than trying to clean up issues later using artificial processing after the issue was already allowed to exist.
In other words - if I need such a powerful DSP processor as this, I've already failed at my goals of trying to have a simple system.
After all, possibly the only more complex, more comprehensive DSP processor is the F#1 H901 piece.
One big draw of the Kicker SX amps IMO is the simplification factor - essentially allowing me to converge multiple amps via one single control panel, and obviously the other is being able to manage each of those amps from the front seat... making tweaks from the exact place where we are trying to effect audible changes.
The H700 would allow me to do the same thing, of course - and then some.
Points on Alpine's scoreboard.
Some would like to believe that the sonics of an Audison VRX, or DLS, or Tru (or another exotic) would be superior, as another advantage.
Call it blind faith, or intuition from experience (since the SX amps are new to me, as are DLS and Tru), but I simply don't buy it. We aren't talking about Boss here, and we aren't talking about their entry level line.
We aren't talking about cheap amps here, but I'm not the sort of person who dreams about owning a Ferarri so that everyone knows up front how extreme the car can perform...
...I'd rather own something unassuming, unexpected even, that could be the Ferarri when called upon.
Point on Kicker's scoreboard.
Another factor is that value is certainly on the side of the SX amps, if for no other reason than that H700 isn't cheap.
And while this isn't the install to show how 'a good installer' can make $300 worth of cheap parts sound great, it is most definitely going to be used to illustrate how spending wisely by allocating money on fewer, but better components in the system can yield better results.
Points on Kicker's scoreboard.
Well, more pondering to do.
(and again - any suggestions to the contrary are appreciated!
)1) SXRC remote controller and Kicker SX series amps.
2) Alpine PXA-H700 and Audison/DLS/Tru/etc. amps.
My take:
Obviously, the PXA-H700 has more features than the Kicker amps onboard processors do. The question is how much of that extra processing in the end will simply lay stagnant, unused.
If I'm doing my job right - executing this install with acoustics in mind - while it may be a bit much to say I couldn't end up using some processing, a major goal is to try to address most issues fundamentally, rather than trying to clean up issues later using artificial processing after the issue was already allowed to exist.
In other words - if I need such a powerful DSP processor as this, I've already failed at my goals of trying to have a simple system.
After all, possibly the only more complex, more comprehensive DSP processor is the F#1 H901 piece.
One big draw of the Kicker SX amps IMO is the simplification factor - essentially allowing me to converge multiple amps via one single control panel, and obviously the other is being able to manage each of those amps from the front seat... making tweaks from the exact place where we are trying to effect audible changes.
The H700 would allow me to do the same thing, of course - and then some.
Points on Alpine's scoreboard.
Some would like to believe that the sonics of an Audison VRX, or DLS, or Tru (or another exotic) would be superior, as another advantage.
Call it blind faith, or intuition from experience (since the SX amps are new to me, as are DLS and Tru), but I simply don't buy it. We aren't talking about Boss here, and we aren't talking about their entry level line.
We aren't talking about cheap amps here, but I'm not the sort of person who dreams about owning a Ferarri so that everyone knows up front how extreme the car can perform...
...I'd rather own something unassuming, unexpected even, that could be the Ferarri when called upon.
Point on Kicker's scoreboard.
Another factor is that value is certainly on the side of the SX amps, if for no other reason than that H700 isn't cheap.
And while this isn't the install to show how 'a good installer' can make $300 worth of cheap parts sound great, it is most definitely going to be used to illustrate how spending wisely by allocating money on fewer, but better components in the system can yield better results.
Points on Kicker's scoreboard.
Well, more pondering to do.
Guest
Posts: n/a
when you are talking about the type of amps like kicker kx, audison, tru etc theya re al;l very good and the one that provides you with what you require the most will be the best one
as for the kicker/alpine question. processing is an interesting question that is hard to answer.y opinion is that its better to have and not use than to never of had at all. i use a pxah900 and used 4 bands of parametric eq, thats it and am hoping for even less in the new build, but it was nice to be able to adjust the parametric eq from a choice of almost 20000 frequncies, as well as varialbe q and so on
the 701 is the best value on the planet when it comes to its capabilities and quality and lets not forget its a proven winner
simple is a great way to go and you can speand all the time in world preparing, testing and installing you stereo but in the end its not a nmatter of if but when some form of sound manipulation through processing will be required to obtain optimun results. for that reason i would get the 701, its provides you with more flexiblity than the kicker and that may just be what you will need to take your car to the nest level
as for the kicker/alpine question. processing is an interesting question that is hard to answer.y opinion is that its better to have and not use than to never of had at all. i use a pxah900 and used 4 bands of parametric eq, thats it and am hoping for even less in the new build, but it was nice to be able to adjust the parametric eq from a choice of almost 20000 frequncies, as well as varialbe q and so on
the 701 is the best value on the planet when it comes to its capabilities and quality and lets not forget its a proven winner
simple is a great way to go and you can speand all the time in world preparing, testing and installing you stereo but in the end its not a nmatter of if but when some form of sound manipulation through processing will be required to obtain optimun results. for that reason i would get the 701, its provides you with more flexiblity than the kicker and that may just be what you will need to take your car to the nest level
I must say that i agree with the point of these high end amps sounding relatively the same. i have heard all of the above mentioned and could not hear any discearnabe difference between them that was not caused by level differences... best off spending the money on better speakers and install. Geolemon, you might want to look into an alpine deck to match with the H700 since many a people have mentioned the clear difference from using the digital input capability of the H700... further there have been noise issues reported from using the analog inputs. another piece you might look at which has its ups and downs is the Altomobile Drive30...if you hook it up to a laptop, this thing is incredible! after playing with both the H700 and the Drive 30, i prefered the set-up of the Drive30 (lots of parmametric EQ, time alignment, flexible Xovers, the works... and it tunes alot easier than the menu driven H700.
As for simplicity and price, you can set up a well tuned system with the dsp in the SX amps without external processing... seems like that was your original goal. if you find that you need more control at a future point, the H700 should be an easy addition and would not detract from the functionality of the remainder of the install, so why not have the H700 and the SX amps (i find it very hard to justify paying $3000 for a Tru amp... don't get me wrong, i wouldn't kick it out of my car.)
hummmm
As for simplicity and price, you can set up a well tuned system with the dsp in the SX amps without external processing... seems like that was your original goal. if you find that you need more control at a future point, the H700 should be an easy addition and would not detract from the functionality of the remainder of the install, so why not have the H700 and the SX amps (i find it very hard to justify paying $3000 for a Tru amp... don't get me wrong, i wouldn't kick it out of my car.)
hummmm
I wouldn't be concerned about how the Kickers will 'sound' when compared to high-dollar products like those other amp companies. Kicker has made solid, well-respected amps for a long time. Just because the voodoophiles may not use them as much doesn't mean they are any less of an amp.
Benefits of the Kicker setup is less pieces in the signal chain and some continuity of having same-brand products in the install. Sometimes this can have more benefits than just cosmetics.
Benefits of the Alpine is greater flexibility, and also some continuity with your deck.
Tough call. If the Kicker setup has what you need, then go for it. If you need more than what it can provide, go for the Alpine.
Benefits of the Kicker setup is less pieces in the signal chain and some continuity of having same-brand products in the install. Sometimes this can have more benefits than just cosmetics.
Benefits of the Alpine is greater flexibility, and also some continuity with your deck.
Tough call. If the Kicker setup has what you need, then go for it. If you need more than what it can provide, go for the Alpine.
hi geolemon
marco told me about your problem today.
I’m using h701 right now, thing is amazing, very flexible with the crossover, parametric eq, time alignment. You cannot compare this kind of processor with onboard amp processor; I think is worth it to spend money on processor.
For amplifier marco and me already compared butler td475 vs c7, and we both agree there is a big different in the soundstage, c7 are more focus, detailed and higher soundstage. About tonality we still not sure if we can both amps sound the same with eq.
That’s why in 1-2 week depending on when my vrx coming, marco, me and chinaman will make a blind test (the listener will not know what amp is installed).
We will compare tru c7, audison vrx4.300, dls a3, brax x1000 and marco will bring his mcintosh and kicker sx.
If you interested you can come and compare it yourself.
marco told me about your problem today.
I’m using h701 right now, thing is amazing, very flexible with the crossover, parametric eq, time alignment. You cannot compare this kind of processor with onboard amp processor; I think is worth it to spend money on processor.
For amplifier marco and me already compared butler td475 vs c7, and we both agree there is a big different in the soundstage, c7 are more focus, detailed and higher soundstage. About tonality we still not sure if we can both amps sound the same with eq.
That’s why in 1-2 week depending on when my vrx coming, marco, me and chinaman will make a blind test (the listener will not know what amp is installed).
We will compare tru c7, audison vrx4.300, dls a3, brax x1000 and marco will bring his mcintosh and kicker sx.
If you interested you can come and compare it yourself.
